Ok, so who can be the creator? [2005 Thread]

Recent thread regarding Cleric build let me re-think about this.

Multiple characters can co-operate to create a magic item. And, when doing so, characters must choose one as the creator.

OK, then, who can be a caster?

1) Truly anyone (for example, when a scroll is made, a human fighter can co-operate and be a creator, then provide xp for it).
2) Anyone who has provided a prerequisite (for example, a non-caster dwarf who does not have item creation feat for a Belt of Dwarvenkind).
3) Anyone who has provided a prerequisite and also has a caster level.
4) Anyone who has provided a prerequisite including appropriate Item Creation feat.
5) Other interpretation.

Reasoning for 2 (or maybe even 1) is the following text,

Originally Posted by SRD
If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator's level must be known.

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Reasoning for 4 is the descriptive texts of various item creation feat. Item creation feats allow the possessor to create magic items. Even the above rule text is not saying that a character without appropriate feat can create an item. Others can just co-operate. Thus, the "creator" must be chosen from someone who actually has appropriate creation feat.

What should be the conclusion?

Edit: Fixed the sentence as Patryn of Elvenshae has suggested.

Shin Okada said:

Multiple characters can co-operate to create a magic item. And, when doing so, characters must choose one as the creator.

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I fixed your above sentence. If you type it the way you did, you might confuse yourself.

2) Anyone who has provided a prerequisite (for example, a non-caster dwarf who does not have item creation feat for a Belt of Dwarvenkind).

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It's that one.

SRD said:

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

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Note, however, that the creator - not the "caster" as you keep saying - sets the caster level for the item.

He cannot set the caster level any higher than his own. What's a human fighter's Caster Level? He doesn't have one. Therefore, the caster level for a scroll made with a Fighter for the creator is -; note that this results in a non-magic item.

So, functionally, the requirement looks a lot like:

Shin said:

3) Anyone who has provided a prerequisite and also has a caster level.

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although that is not absolutely required.

I would figure it's this one. Only the item creation feats allow characters to spend experience to make items. Unless the person who is spending the experience is able to do it, I don't think the system works.

Thus, while other characters can provide prerequisites (spells, elfiness, or dwarfiness, etc), only the one with the item creation feat can spend xp and be considered the "creator" of the item.

Shin Okada said:

4) Anyone who has provided a prerequisite including appropriate Item Creation feat.

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What about the part that says:

SRD said:

To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats.

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Seems to me that if you don't have the feat you can't create the item.

The particular feat is nothing more special than another prerequisite.

Thus, to make a scroll of Cure Light Wounds you need two prerequisites:

1) Scribe Scroll feat
2) Cure Light Wounds spell

Let's say we have a Cleric 1 and a Wizard 1 working together. The wizard provides the Scribe Scroll feat prereq, and the Cleric provides the CLW spell prereq. There are two possibilities for what happens:

1) The Wizard is the Creator. The spell is made at Caster Level 1 - high enough to cast the spell and less than or equal to the Wizard's own CL. The scroll is arcane. The wizard spends 1 XP in the creation.

2) The Cleric is the Creator. The spell is made at Caster Level 1 - high enough to cast the spell and less than or equal to the Cleric's own CL. The scroll is divine. The cleric spends 1 XP in the creation.

In the first case, you have a scroll which is useable only by bards. In the second, you have a scroll which is usable by clerics, druids, and experienced rangers and paladins.

1)

Elder-Basilisk said:

Thus, while other characters can provide prerequisites (spells, elfiness, or dwarfiness, etc), only the one with the item creation feat can spend xp and be considered the "creator" of the item.

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Incorrect.

SRD said:

Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item’s creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed).

...

Prerequisites: Certain requirements must be met in order for a character to create a magic item. These include feats, spells, and miscellaneous requirements such as level, alignment, and race or kind. The prerequisites for creation of an item are given immediately following the item’s caster level.

A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.

It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item.

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Important parts are highlighted.

Actually, spells are on your spell list no matter if you can cast any yet.

Sithobi1 said:

Actually, spells are on your spell list no matter if you can cast any yet.

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Which has what to do with what?

You said "experienced paladins and rangers"; I was just correcting you.
FWIW, I believe 2 is the correct answer, but would allow 1 if the players wanted to.

Sithobi1 said:

You said "experienced paladins and rangers"; I was just correcting you.

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Ah. Your correction is wrong, however.

You must be able to cast spells in order to use a spell completion item (like a scroll). Therefore, it is limited to experienced paladins and rangers.

Now, wands, on the other hand ...