Fireballing dead bodies

Last session the wizard used an empowered fireball on the bad guys and did 63 damage. The problem was that one party member's corpse was on the ground in the area of effect along with the corpse of one of the opposition. Since the corpses weren't going to save, each item on each corpse saved using its own Reflex save. The wizards save DC was like 22.

So it ended up that almost all the items failed to save. The Reflex save for caster level 10 item is +7, so about 75% of the time the item will fail. And for things like cloaks, wands, scrolls, potions, etc., the 32 points of damage will destroy the item. (32 damage because fire damage is halved for items.) Actually even saving for 16 damage would kill a lot of items, how many hit points does a scroll or cloak have?

Seems only magic armor and magic weapons could survive this. But the two corpses were both unarmored types. And the spell had only the DC of a 3rd level spell, I can't imagine what would have happened if it had been a 7th level spell. Actually I can imagine, every item would have needed a natural 20 to save. Not pretty.

So my question is two fold: First, did we do this right? Second, if we did this right, how often does this happen with higher level parties. I've heard of people complaining about Mord's disjunction being worse than death because replacing items is harder than resurrection, but if you die and then have the bad fortune of being at ground zero of an evocation spell, your items are just as toasty. I've never heard anyone mention that before so I'm a bit stunned.

Yes, you did it right, and most people don't try to incinerate their dead friends' corpses.

maggot said:

So my question is two fold: First, did we do this right?

Click to expand...

Don't forget hardness, which doesn't actually change your point, but it's important to take into consideration while performing your calculations on what's destroyed.

Also, remember that Fireball is a spread, and won't affect anything completely enclosed as long as the barrier survives. Unfortunately, "If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits"... so if the fireball does destroy the backpack, the scrolls are vulnerable. But if the backpack survives, the scrolls don't need to save. It's worth an adventurer's while to invest in a tough backpack

-Hyp.

You might consider a save bonus for the items being on the ground and less exposed to the blast than something standing that could be immersed in the fireball.

Sithobi1 said:

Yes, you did it right, and most people don't try to incinerate their dead friends' corpses.

Click to expand...

That's what I've been telling our sorc a million times after being raised and finding 90% of my items incinerated. (not that it matters anymore - I hate rolling a 1 on a massive damage save)

maggot said:

... The wizards save DC was like 22.

So it ended up that almost all the items failed to save. The Reflex save for caster level 10 item is +7, so about 75% of the time the item will fail. And for things like cloaks, wands, scrolls, potions, etc., the 32 points of damage will destroy the item. (32 damage because fire damage is halved for items.) Actually even saving for 16 damage would kill a lot of items, how many hit points does a scroll or cloak have?

Seems only magic armor and magic weapons could survive this. But the two corpses were both unarmored types. And the spell had only the DC of a 3rd level spell, I can't imagine what would have happened if it had been a 7th level spell. ...

Click to expand...

That's a high save DC for a 3rd-level spell (10 + 3 + 9). What's the Int (and level) of the wizard? Also, he has Spell Focus and/or similar feats?

I had this happen to me once with our wizard's sonic fireball. Nothing like losing 163k gp worth of magic items. In hindsight I should have lost a lot more. We forgot that sonic damage ignores hardness and I neglected to mention the rule that Hypersmurf mentioned earlier.

Oh well.

Also, I'd say that items under you at the very least have cover, so some of those items would be getting a bonus to there saves at least. (Can cover grant evasion? or did that go away in the revision?)

If the character was lying flat on the ground, then I'd rule that the items under the character were completely protected and didn't need to save unless the corpse was destroyed. What is the save and HD of a corpse, anyway?

EDIT: This is just an idea, I' not suggesting the RAW say anything like this specifically.


glass.

Haversack of Safekeeping, baby. Relics & Rituals item.

You did things right by the RAW.

The simple answer is to carefully avoid Fireballing your fallen friends.

The more complicated answer is the give circumstance bonuses to the save, extra bonuses adn hardness to things in containers, etc. Even then a lot of nonmetal items are going to bite the dust.

My philosophy is that death is usually its own reward, and there is neither in game nor out of game necessity to have the PC be really hosed out of all his equipment. That said, he will lose a few items and a lot damaged, and that should be sufficient to put the players on notice to be more careful.

I would also note that the Wizard blasted what was probably a very brave meatshield fallen in the line of duty. In game, that meatshield may not feel like being so brave anymore if the party does not chip in and maek sure he is properly equipped.