the Epic Gimp

OK, so take a Cleric to 10, and then give him 2 five-level prestige classes that give full casting progression. What happens when this character goes Epic? He can't take either of the prestige classes, because 5 level classes don't get epic levels. But if he goes for cleric, he gets virtually nothing for the next 10 levels.

A pure cleric (or any pure caster, for that matter), stops gettign new spells per level, but instead gets normal class special abilities and bonus epic feats based on class - with the number of feats you get being inversely proportional to the number of class abilities you continue to get. But this guy isn't taking epic levels of cleric yet, he's taking the last 10 normal levels of cleric. Now, if he were a cleric/wizard(or fighter or whatever) 10/10, these 10 levels would be filled with him getting the normal spell progression, but since he already got those from the prestige classes, he can't get them again. So essentially, he gets the normal epic progression that everyone gets plus improved turning ability. That seems really crappy for 10 epic levels.

you have it right. in this instance going back to cleric is not the best thing to do if you are concnerned with the power of the character. You can take a third prestige class or perhaps even an epic prestige class instead.

Crothian said:

you have it right. in this instance going back to cleric is not the best thing to do if you are concnerned with the power of the character. You can take a third prestige class or perhaps even an epic prestige class instead.

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Woah. Please eleborate. When my toon is a lvl 5 wiz, he's going to take a 10 lvl PrC that increases caster lvl for each PrC lvl. When he tops the PrC, that will leave him at lvl 5 wiz/lvl 10 PrC and caster level 15. What does this mean for his Epic progression?

The PrC in this case is a custom-made PrC.

darkelfo said:

Woah. Please eleborate. When my toon is a lvl 5 wiz, he's going to take a 10 lvl PrC that increases caster lvl for each PrC lvl. When he tops the PrC, that will leave him at lvl 5 wiz/lvl 10 PrC and caster level 15. What does this mean for his Epic progression?

The PrC in this case is a custom-made PrC.

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That is a different siutuation. 10 level prestige classes can go epic, so you can continue with that class once you reach 20th level. In the first suituation it was a pair of 5 level prestige classe, which do not gain any epic levels.

Since it is custom-made, the GM could expand it to epic levels, though.

Jdvn1 said:

Since it is custom-made, the GM could expand it to epic levels, though.

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THe DM can of course trump anything. But by defintion only Prestige classes with 10 or more levels can become epic.

Clerics get nothing besides turn undead and more spells as they gain levels. Assuming your PRCs granted you full spell casting progression in addition to nifty special abilities you're probably already at an edge over just a straight level 20 cleric. Therefore the epic cleric is just catching up (took 'em long enough huh?).

Crothian said:

THe DM can of course trump anything. But by defintion only Prestige classes with 10 or more levels can become epic.

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Does that mean my toon will be able to get Epic wizard feats? There are no rules for an Epic version of my PrC. I gather I will be able to hop back on the wiz track after the 10 lvls and then go Epic.

Where is 10 lvl PrC rule. I believe you of course, just seems an arbitrary distinction.

My PrC is a variant on the Inspired Inventor from Steam and Steal. Very cool crafting PrC.

You can get Epic feats as soon as you have 21 HD.

It's mentioned in the Epic Level Handbook, that you can expand 10 level PrCs to Epic progressions. It's a sidebar, I think.

darkelfo said:

Does that mean my toon will be able to get Epic wizard feats? There are no rules for an Epic version of my PrC. I gather I will be able to hop back on the wiz track after the 10 lvls and then go Epic.

Where is 10 lvl PrC rule. I believe you of course, just seems an arbitrary distinction.

My PrC is a variant on the Inspired Inventor from Steam and Steal. Very cool crafting PrC.

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The idea is that classes less then 10 levels are too easy to complete and get bonuse epic levels for which grant bonus epic feats. THe epic level handbook has info on it and a few sample examples but for the most part people have to create the epic version of the classes themselves.