An alternative dwarf based on Norse legends

I just bought Frostburn and I was reading through the new monsters and stumbled across the Midgard Dwarf. While very powerful compared to the standard dwarf it did make me think how different the standard dwarf could be considered from the dwarf from Norse legend.

So . . . is it possible to create a “Norse Dwarf” that is LA+0 possibly based on the Midgard Dwarf?

So here’s my suggestion for a more Norse version of the standard dwarf (I’ll repeat all of the standard dwarf abilities retained in this version for completeness).

-2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, -4 Charisma; Norse Dwarves are extremely tough but less agile than other races and tend to shun contact even with other dwarves.

Medium size (As an aside, while not strictly true from the Norse legends I’ve always thought of dwarves as larger than their D&D versions but still shorter on average than humans).

A Norse Dwarves base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armour or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

Darkvision out to 60 feet.

Stability: Norse Dwarves are exceptionally stable on their feet. A Norse Dwarf has a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).

+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.

+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against creatures of the giant type (such as ogres, trolls, and hill giants).

+4 dodge bonus to Armour Class against creatures of the giant type (such as ogres, trolls, and hill giants).

+2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to manufactured items.

+4 racial bonus on Craft checks and +2 on Use Magical Device checks.

Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds a Norse Dwarf for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.

So . . . does this hold up as a LA+0 class? Is it too powerful? Too weak?

Other points to consider . . .

Is it possible to include the ability to “curse” items the Norse Dwarf makes without it being unbalancing?

Is it possible to allow them to manufacture magical items as a racial feature without it being unbalancing?

Cheers!

Erekose said:

...Is it possible to allow them to manufacture magical items as a racial feature without it being unbalancing?

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I can address this one - the simplest way to approach this one is to say that dwarves become eligible for the various craft feats at the appropriate character level. Want to make a magic ring? Be a dwarf with a total of 12 character levels and you are eligible to take the feat.

Enkhidu said:

I can address this one - the simplest way to approach this one is to say that dwarves become eligible for the various craft feats at the appropriate character level. Want to make a magic ring? Be a dwarf with a total of 12 character levels and you are eligible to take the feat.

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Sounds reasonable to me - thanks Enkhidu!

Any other comments?

Looks good to me, especially with the addition of being able to take the magic item feats at the appropriate level. WotC's already opened the door on that one, with the warlock from Complete Arcane -- they make items without spells, too.

Thanks for the reply Cyberzombie - I'll check out Complete Arcane!

compared with you *fantastic* Light Elf this feels bland and way too much like a PHB dwarf . . .

in Norse mythology, the names Dark Elves and Dwarves were completely interchangable, but are sometimes called two different races (a good example is in LotR > the names Orcs and Goblins are used interchangably, but there isn't any "proof" whether they were the same race or different) thus, this is kinda up to you for how you want them played; but i would definitively get rid of some of their PHB dwarf traits, and make them more associated with darkness (like your awesome Norse Elves and how they were associated with Light)

Erekose said:

-2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, -4 Charisma; Norse Dwarves are extremely tough but less agile than other races and tend to shun contact even with other dwarves.

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this kinda come off as a "super-PHB dwarf" rather than a new race. I agree with the -2 Dex . . . on a standard dwarf (infact, i give that to my dwarves instead of -2 Cha) but i dunno . . .it doesnt rub me right. The books/write ups i have read on Norse Dark elves/Dwarves make them sound more like evil masterminds/pranksters > and for that, youd need Int and Cha. so a penalty, and lack of bonus doesnt fit it. Also, since they are in the same race as Light Elves it stands to reason theyd be fairly similar other that sub-racial specifics, but just look at what you gave them. -2 Str and +4 Cha.
Now, add that all together, and what do you have? in my opinion: -2 Str, +2 Int, +2 Cha. Descriptive text could go as follows: Norse Dwarves/Dark Elves are masterful tricksters, pranksters and such, but are fairly weak and stunted from living underground, and also do not have such a "presence" that Light Elves have

Erekose said:

A Norse Dwarves base land speed is 20 feet. However, dwarves can move at this speed even when wearing medium or heavy armour or when carrying a medium or heavy load.

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drop this, and give them the standard 30 feet. they wouldnt have any special training in armour for generations to be rid of the penalties that are associated with wearing medium and up armours and carrying medium and heavy loads.

Erekose said:

Darkvision out to 60 feet.

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they are folk of the underground, so this is fine

Erekose said:

Stability: Norse Dwarves are exceptionally stable on their feet. A Norse Dwarf has a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground)

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drop it. again, another more PHB dwarf trait that is relevant here.

Erekose said:

+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.

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do what you did for light elves: +2 vs spells that require a will save. that works fine.

Erekose said:

+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against creatures of the giant type (such as ogres, trolls, and hill giants). AND +4 dodge bonus to Armour Class against creatures of the giant type (such as ogres, trolls, and hill giants).

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id drop this, because the Norse Dark Elves/Dwarves lived underground, and it was the gods
that battled the giants. its not to say that your players couldnt, but it would NOT be a standard battle.

Erekose said:

+2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to manufactured items. AND +4 racial bonus on Craft checks and +2 on Use Magical Device checks.

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id actually expand this a bit > give em +2 Appraise, Craft and Knowledge checks erlated to manufacted items (generally equipment, not things like castles, etc) and also, the +4 is too much; no standard race gets +4 to any skill. as for the +2 use magical device, why not just say that it is automatically on his class skill list, no matter which he chooses?

Erekose said:

Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light (such as sunlight or a daylight spell) blinds a Norse Dwarf for 1 round. On subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.

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this makes sense, if compared to the Light Elves. Since they constantly war upon each other, the Luminescence ability fits well (meaning blind and then subsequently dazzled during any contact/batter etc, but you need to balance it out, because the Light Elves have the Advantage here. Maybe the Dark Elves/Dwarves should have a Darkness ability that functions exactly like the light elves, and when they come within each others radi, they are suppressed.

This would be so cool to see on a large scale: imagine lines and lines of Dark and Light Elves in melee, a great mash in the middle where Auras are blinking on and off like light-bulbs or amazing strobe-lite display, and then the Elves that are not in combat > one side bathed in glorious shineing light so strong that it would hurt a normal humans eyes, and the other line; a vast void in the battlefeild, with chain-clad, stout warriors awaiting their chance to fell the hated light elves . . . I love it!! Also, id say (as an exceptiong to the rule) that Dark Elves may see in their darkness Auras, and that they are suppressable at will.

Erekose said:

So . . . does this hold up as a LA+0 class? Is it too powerful? Too weak?

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hmmm, they are definitively powerful, my version or yours . . . id give em a +1 LA at least . . . its a draw-back, i know, but frankly, do you think that these creatures should be as strong as a standard human commoner? no, of course not. But even comparing this to say a standard elf (or dwarf for that matter) if very powerful. maybe have them take a racial level, so they get HD, saves, skills, etc, plus their abilities. That would be the best way too, whether it be my version or yours.

Erekose said:

Is it possible to include the ability to “curse” items the Norse Dwarf makes without it being unbalancing?

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this is strait outta FB, and i like it, but again, very powerful. maybe a half-power bestow curse would work?? (meaning -3 to one ability, instead of -6, etc) useable once per year. that should do it up fine.

Erekose said:

Is it possible to allow them to manufacture magical items as a racial feature without it being unbalancing?

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dude, you want everything and a box of peanuts for these guys. naw, way to powerful for a racial ability, but for this, get out your copy of Races of Stone (or buy it/download it) as check out the Battlesmith class. that should help you, but again, it is a very PHB-oriented PrC. So design yourself a new one, with specific details that are aimed towards your Dwarves/Dark Elves. I can help with this if you want, but its up to you

Anyways, that you for two of the best races i have seen on enworld yet. if you can, please lead me to some of you other house rules stuff, cause i really like you style.

Dear Nyaricus,

I haven't got chance to respond to all of these posts just yet (to be honest I thought this and the An alternative elfbased on Norse legends were dead.

In any event, I'm at home recouperating from major brain surgery so it may be some time before I do!

Erekose said:

Dear Nyaricus,

I haven't got chance to respond to all of these posts just yet (to be honest I thought this and the An alternative elfbased on Norse legends were dead.

In any event, I'm at home recouperating from major brain surgery so it may be some time before I do!

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hey man, no problem at all (and i hope you are doing okay with the surgery bit). I'm a noob here, so i went back to the start, and to my delight, found this little tidbit and was incrediably delighted with it, along with its elven companion. I may even play a Norse Campaign now, dig out my deities and demi-gods and have a go! Anyways, take it easy and thanks for this awesomely flavoured race.

I agree, some cool races. I think nyaricus made some good points. I would give the dwarves the ability to take Item crafting feats but not give them to the dwarves automatically. As for cursing an item you could just look at sample cursed items and say that they can make those while disguising them as something else. A lot of cursed items appear to be something else at first anyway.

boredgremlin said:

I agree, some cool races. I think nyaricus made some good points.

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Care to elaborate? id be interested in your "disection" of my psuedo-version and Erekose's origonal one. Just interested, as this seems like a very cool idea

BTW, other opinions/comments are welcome of course, just making a friendly example of our bored gremlin