Light evocation

Suppose I cast a 6th level light evocation that produces a ray down a hallway.

Now suppose there are three darkness effects in that hallway, and an enemy in the last area of darkness. The darkness effects are 5th level, 7th level, and 1st level respectively. Assuming I can in fact cast the spell down the hallway and target the enemy (what would I need to do so?), what happens?

Light evocations "counter and dispel" darkness of equal or lower level.

Does the ray, which only incidentally passes through the first area of darkness, dispel the entire effect, go on, and get countered when it strikes the 7th level darkness effect? Does it go through all three but dispel none of them? Does it dispel the first and last one? Does it only dispel the parts it passes through?

What, no takers still? I'm disappointed in you, EN Boards. Your collective kung fu is weak.

I presume that 'light evoc' spells are produce flame and daylight.

Find a 'light evoc' spell that produces a ray and I'll attempt to consider your question.

Sunbeam (it's a line not a ray but that's near enough, isn't it?)

isoChron said:

Sunbeam (it's a line not a ray but that's near enough, isn't it?)

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Sunbeam is a great example because it clearly affects any targets in the path of the beam, so better than a ray because it is 'path inclusive'.

Let's say the caster fires a sunbeam down a hallway that has two deeper darkness in it.

The key text is

srd-light said:

A light spell (one with the light descriptor) counters and dispels a darkness spell (one with the darkness descriptor) of an equal or lower level.

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and

srd-darkness said:

Daylight brought into an area of deeper darkness (or vice versa) is temporarily negated, so that the otherwise prevailing light conditions exist in the overlapping areas of effect.

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So it sounds like if you fired a sunbeam down the hallway it would dispel the first darkness and is done. Luckily you get one beam for every 3 caster levels, so you start with 3 beams...one for each darkness and one for targets in the hallway

That's the way I read it. So with regard to the posed question, I would say that a 'ray' of light can not pass through any areas of magical darkness, that is, it negates the first darkness encountered (if possible) and is spent. Consider this parallel to other rules of counterspell, you don't get the effect of the spell if it is used to counter another.

werk said:

Sunbeam is a great example because it clearly affects any targets in the path of the beam, so better than a ray because it is 'path inclusive'.

Let's say the caster fires a sunbeam down a hallway that has two deeper darkness in it.

The key text is
and

So it sounds like if you fired a sunbeam down the hallway it would dispel the first darkness and is done. Luckily you get one beam for every 3 caster levels, so you start with 3 beams...one for each darkness and one for targets in the hallway

That's the way I read it. So with regard to the posed question, I would say that a 'ray' of light can not pass through any areas of magical darkness, that is, it negates the first darkness encountered (if possible) and is spent. Consider this parallel to other rules of counterspell, you don't get the effect of the spell if it is used to counter another.

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Thanks. I couldn't think of any official light rays either, which is why I made the text nondescript. So, you would rule that a ray of light counterspells one thing and is done. Sounds reasonable, although of course, I could argue that I'm not targeting the darkness . . .

Getting back to my example, what would you say happens when you fire a sunbeam into the hallway I proposed, with a higher level darkness effect in the middle? I guess the first darkness is dispelled (but doesn't negate a beam because the effect is a line) and all three beams would be negated by the higher level darkness effect in the middle of the hallway?

To get even goofier, if someone tried to use a darkness spell that "counters and dispels light," would a heightened 9th level light spell prevent it from getting past a lit area?

moritheil said:

...could argue that I'm not targeting the darkness . . .

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Irrelevant. It doesn't say anything about targeting, just that they dispel each other if they are in the same area.

moritheil said:

Getting back to my example, what would you say happens when you fire a sunbeam into the hallway I proposed, with a higher level darkness effect in the middle? I guess the first darkness is dispelled (but doesn't negate a beam because the effect is a line) and all three beams would be negated by the higher level darkness effect in the middle of the hallway?

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No. First beam would dispel the first (5th lvl) darkness effect, beam one is spent. Beam two hits the 7th level darkness, and being 7th level (equal or lesser) dispels it and is spent. Repeat for third darkness. Same effect if sunbeam is cast at higher level.

moritheil said:

To get even goofier, if someone tried to use a darkness spell that "counters and dispels light," would a heightened 9th level light spell prevent it from getting past a lit area?

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Yep. Any 8th level darkness in the area would stop/dispel a 7th lvl sunbeam and not be dispelled...and vice versa.

werk said:

Irrelevant. It doesn't say anything about targeting, just that they dispel each other if they are in the same area.

No. First beam would dispel the first (5th lvl) darkness effect, beam one is spent. Beam two hits the 7th level darkness, and being 7th level (equal or lesser) dispels it and is spent. Repeat for third darkness. Same effect if sunbeam is cast at higher level.

Yep. Any 8th level darkness in the area would stop/dispel a 7th lvl sunbeam and not be dispelled...and vice versa.

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1. Thank you, that's the sort of answer I was seeking. So all that matters is the area.

2. Sorry, by "higher" I meant to suppose an even higher level darkness. I wasn't clear there, that's my fault. I was intending to ask about a 9th level darkness effect. Which would, I understand, prevent all those rays from getting through.

3. That's what I thought; it works flawlessly in reverse. Thanks.

Of course that is all 'as I read it' not 'hard and fast'

werk said:

Of course that is all 'as I read it' not 'hard and fast'

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Right. This being the Rules forum, I suppose if someone has another opinion, we'll hear from them fast.