Epic House Rules

I've been GMing an epic campaign for around two years now, and I've made a lot of tweaks to the system to better make it fit my idea of things. I thought I'd start a thread to share some of it - which I'll post to when I have time. It'll be an ongoing thing, as there's a lot to get out. I won't touch the epic spell system, which has occupied most of my time and energy, as I still hold out some vague idea of getting my rules published. But there's lots of other stuff which has come up as well: most will take the form of scattered ramblings.

I thought I'd start at the top, so to speak, with divinity. Like many others on this board, I hope that Upper_Krust will publish the definitive rules on this subject. Until then, I'm winging things as necessary - deities (especially quasi-deities) appear pretty frequently in my game, so I need some kind of mechanism (beyond the SRD and DDg) to deal with them.

So here we go.


DIVINE RANKS

1. Divine Rank (DvR) is a useful measure of connection between certain entities and cosmic forces which are often connected to veneration and worship, dogma, dreams, religious experience and - in game terms - divine magic.

2. Entities with Divine Rank are not necessarily deities in the conventional sense, although conventional deities always possess DvR.

3. The term Power is the preferred term in dealing with entities with a DvR, as it is a less loaded term than deity or god. A deity is a more specific type within a broader group of entities.


Quasi-Powers (DvR 0)

These entities are not powers in the conventional sense, but possess a measure of connection with the divine which far exceeds that of normal mortals. They share certain characteristics, and in many cases are respected, venerated, or even worshipped. The fact that they cannot directly grant spells does not detract from their importance - they may still act as foci through which belief is crystallized, as intermediaries for true powers, or as representatives of the abstract philosophical and religious ideas from which a cleric's power springs.

A variety of entities may be considered eligible for quasi-divine status:

* Abominations: These are the offcast and unwanted progeny of true gods, atavisms which predate religious understanding, manifestations of violent cosmic forces, creatures erupting from the unconscious urges of evil deities, or effluvia discarded by a primal cosmos ordering itself. They possess a variety of traits in addition to those shared by other quasi-powers. They are potent, and almost invariably malign.

*Ancestral Spirits: These entities are the incorporeal protectors and guardians of tribes, races or nations, invoked in times of crisis and upheaval. Sometimes, they are tied to a specific locale. Ancestral spirits are generally past heroes (barbarians, fighters, rangers or paladins) who have achieved a measure of divine power by acting as exemplars or objects of veneration. To create an ancestral spirit, add the ghost template to a character with 20 or more class levels, and add the quasi-power traits in addition. Ancestral spirits are undead and can be turned in the usual manner. They may be of any alignment.

*Conditional Quasi-Divinity: This is a quality possessed by powerful celestials, demons, devils and elementals (and perhaps other outsiders) within the limits of a specific circumscribed area - usually a plane or realm, but sometimes a stronghold or city. The entity (such as a Duke of Hell, or a powerful succubus with 20 assassin levels) only enjoys the benefits of quasi-divinity within this area, and loses it when it leaves. Conditional quasi-powers are generally elementals or outsiders.

*Divine Pedigree: Possessing a divine forebear - either directly, or by descent - is generally sufficient to elevate a creature to quasi-divinity. In cases where very powerful gods have interbred with mortals, the bloodline may run true for many generations. Such creatures are often demigods (in the conventional sense). Some achieve true divinity through sponsorship from their deific parent. Such characters are native outsiders.

*Forgotten or Fallen Deities: These entities were once the object of worship, but have somehow been stripped of their divine power - either through neglect from their worshippers, or by the act of higher powers. They possess 20 outsider Hit Dice, plus class levels, but lack a higher divine rank: the number of class levels possessed by a fallen deity usually reflects its former divine status. Most are resentful of their current lot. They are outsiders with alignment subtypes.

*Godlings: Godlings are nascent deities, potential deities, or deities in the process of becoming. As such, they possess a core of divine potential (20 outsider Hit Dice), and perhaps class levels in addition, but lack a divine rank higher than 0. A godling may be struggling to realize its divine potential, or it may be content in its ambiguous status. Races of godlings exist - the equivalent of proto-pantheons, living in what will become the legendary past of worlds, 'when gods walked the earth.' Godlings are generally outsiders with an alignment subtype.

*Sanctified (or Damned) Characters: These are devout servants of a particular deity who have been rewarded (or cursed) with immortality. Sometimes, they act as intercessors between divine and mortal affairs. They are always exemplars of a particular religious ideal. Sometimes they possess celestial (or fiendish) chracteristics in addition - use the half-celestial or half-fiend template to model this. They may have been elevated bodily by their deity through assumption, or given new life after their death through natural or unnatural causes - such characters are native outsiders. Alternatively, they may be undead. Clerics, paladins and druids are good candidates.

*Small Gods: These are usually powerful feys and elementals tied to a specific geogrphic location - such as a lake, hill or wood. They may be venerated by local mortals, or at least appeased by offerings. Their concerns are often not mortal concerns, and although some look kindly upon farming communities, many are whimsical or malicious. Feys and woodland spirits look to them in times of need. The area of direct influence exerted by a small god might only be a mile or two, but their indirect influence is likely to extend much further. To create a small god, fully advance an elemental, fey or plant creature, and add the quasi-divine traits. Many have character levels - often druid or sorcerer - in addition. They retain their original monster type.

*Totemic Animal Gods: Totemic animals represent idealizations of qualities possessed by various species of animals, and act as protectors or guardians. Sometimes, their concerns intersect with human affairs, but often they are aloof and uncaring. Various religious taboos are associated with them. To create a totemic animal god, advance an animal to its maximum Hit Dice, treat it as awakened (although an animal god is not a magical beast), add character levels in addition (usually barbarian, druid or ranger), and finally add quasi-deity traits. Alternatively, add the paragon template to an animal and add quasi-divine traits. Animal gods retain the animal type, despite their divinity.

*Venerated Heroes: Heroes of great fame and prowess can attract a degree of adoration which elevates them to quasi-divine status; alternatively, their status may have been bestowed upon them by higher powers in recognition of their deeds. Unlike ancestral spirits, venerated heroes are still alive, although most share the martial emphasis of ancestral spirits. To create a venerated hero, simply add the quasi-deity traits to a character with 20 or more class levels. They are outsiders with the native subtype.
 

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Hey Sep,

I was wondering how you handle Epic spellcasting. I've decided that the current reqs, in terms of money and XP, are too stringent for my game. So, I've halved those reqs, while keeping the development time the same. Have you altered the development reqs at all? (I thought I saw a post of yours that stated you assume Epic level characters have a certain amount of resources and you don't keep a running tally of monetary expenditures.)

Per your new (semi)-divine rules, they look good and I think they are necessary as Epic characters are often the equivalent "mortal" gods when compared with the powers/influence of non-epic NPCs, etc., around them.
 

CRGreathouse

Community Supporter
How many of these "Sanctified (or Damned) Characters" are there? With Divine Rank 0, I'd think it they'd be pretty special; this puts them in the same league as the heavy-hitters you listed like fallen gods, godlings, and small gods.
 

Nifft

Penguin Herder
CRGreathouse said:
How many of these "Sanctified (or Damned) Characters" are there? With Divine Rank 0, I'd think it they'd be pretty special; this puts them in the same league as the heavy-hitters you listed like fallen gods, godlings, and small gods.

I think we all know one of them by name... ;)

-- N
 

Roman

First Post
Sep, this is good. :)

Suggestions:

1) For creating Totemic Animal Gods use a fully advanced legendary version of the given animal rather than a normal advanced version as a base.
2) Integrate Totemic Animal Gods with the Small Gods.
 

Rackhir

Explorer
Angel of Adventure said:
Hey Sep,

I was wondering how you handle Epic spellcasting. I've decided that the current reqs, in terms of money and XP, are too stringent for my game. So, I've halved those reqs, while keeping the development time the same. Have you altered the development reqs at all? (I thought I saw a post of yours that stated you assume Epic level characters have a certain amount of resources and you don't keep a running tally of monetary expenditures.)

I know that entities like Graz'zt and Sonnelion had an XP buffer that they could use in the casting of epic spells. As per burning XP to lower the DC of an Epic Spell. He also lets characters use the XP in items (destroying it) to fuel Epic Spells in a similar fashion. Epic Spells can be created "on the fly" as well, Nwm did this with the "She is tired of Your Interference". I don't believe he uses the research costs. I think he said something to the effect of "They required more wealth than kingdoms possess."

Sepulchrave II said:
" 4. Soneillon’s spell Be Not! is an example of exactly why she is so dangerous – and why Graz’zt fears her so much. Chthonic demons pay no XP cost for spells which normally require it – in Mostin’s terms, her ‘reservoir is limitless’. The 10,000XP burn becomes a standard mitigating factor. C.f."

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58227&page=3&pp=32
Tales of Wyre Thread
From Post 82, pg.2
About 3/4 down the page

Sepulchrave II said:
"Nwm grimaced and struck his blackthorn staff once upon the flagstone inside the door. The slabs which formed the chapel floor began to crack. "She is tired of your interference," he announced to the demons, although it would have been spoken with equal vehemence to Soneillon, the Loquai, the devas, and perhaps even to the Sela himself.

Green fire blazed over the Druid, threatening to consume him. His skin blistered and cracked, his cloak ignited. His mouth, ears and eyes dripped a liquid that might have been blood, or sap, or both. A colossal discharge of viridescence emanated from him. His staff sank into the floor, burning in a brilliant flash of green, and the orb of storms which had topped it fell off and rolled away.

For the briefest moment, Ortwin fancied that he saw the silhouette of a woman in Nwm’s place: a shape of great girth and dignity; fecund, bearing a thousand swollen breasts.

The demons were transfixed with expressions of bewilderment – impaled through limb and torso on vast, thorny boughs which erupted from the paved courtyard, penetrating their hides and instantly slaying them. The corpse of the babau, Hazihe, flickered disconcertingly on the edge of consciousness: destroyed, nullified – whatever became of things that had already survived annihilation.

Nwm collapsed.

"I should like to sleep now," he said."

Sepulchrave II said:
"
Note:

Nwm’s spell (She is tired of your interference) was a spontaneous variation of another that his player, Dave had been working on. I had ruled that DC0 Epic Spells could be invented and cast "on the fly." In this case I also allowed the staff of the woodlands to be used as a (fabulously expensive) material component – I permitted the normal XP cost to create the item (3600 XP) to be used in lieu of part of the XP mitigating factors (i.e. –36 DC). It had wholly appropriate symbolism for the mood that Nwm was in, and the spell’s visual effects reflected that.

So Nwm was the first PC to cast an Epic Spell in the game – to the immense surprise of the other players, who had no idea that Nwm was capable (or even that he was 21st level, IIRC).

The demonic attack was kind of mean of me, I’ll admit (although the players had great fun playing the devas for a round or two), but it was within Nhura’s capabilities to organize the ambush, so I could hardly let it pass. The PCs were still all completely spent from their encounter with Crosod, Eadric was missing, and to throw the chthonic babau (CR 20 or so) and a bunch of glabrezu at them at this point was a little bit ruthless.


On a related note, this opened a whole new can of worms – that of allowing magical items to serve as material components for Epic Spells. I actually quite like the idea: its not as though such things can be freely purchased in the campaign, and I think it actually balances quite well – one form of XP sink (the item) is converted into another (the Epic Spell). The purpose and symbolism needs to be consistent on some level – so it wouldn’t be possible to use, say, Daern’s instant fortress to fuel a fire evocation."
 
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Thanks, Rackhir. Yeah, I kinda remember reading that in the story hour/rogue's gallery. My problem is that, as it is, Epic spells are nearly unreachable for the characters with the Epic Spell feat. In the game I play in (Jester's Great Conflicts), only one PC has taken the feat and he's had it for several levels. Surprise, he doesn't have any epic spells. I think that this is because they are too expensive, both XP and Gold wise.

My compromise as DM of another game (The Ardick Campaign SH) was to give the player 1 epic spell with the feat, and halve the monies/xp cost. Maybe I went too far, time will tell, but I really want epic magic in my game. My question for Sep II was about the reqs he imposes on Mostin, et al, when they create the Epic spells that kick sooo much butt in his Wyre game.

Maybe I'll start another thread on this, but please give some input back Sep/Rackhir as it would be very much appreciated.
 

pogre

Legend
Sep,

Just wanted to encourage you to publish those epic level spell rules. I certainly would purchase the pdf if you sold it.

Ideally, such a product would be paired with an excel spreadsheet to aid the DM.

I'm sure you have had all kinds of folks offer to publish this for you, but if you would like to explore the possibilities feel free to e-mail me:
pogueclan AT yahoo DOT com.

pogre
 


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