Railroading is bad?

Arrgh! Mark! · Jun 20, 2005

There seems to be this big thing about railroading on these boards, and I have a vague suspicion that I do it.

Now, I let the players have their own way in the adventure and go about it as they will. Encounters happen or they don't - things don't neccesarily have to happen in order.

But by god, if they follow an unimportant clue to it's very end, I start giving large clues. Starting with "I wonder if this clue is important? Maybe there's others. What are the other options?" to "That is a silly idea. There's nothing in the Belgian Congo*."

People yap on about railroading, and yet as a DM I believe keeping on the plot is a neccesary thing for both my and player enjoyment. My players never complain about me forcing actions or anything. (Well, apart from a historical fantasy game. But I mean, seriously - you don't say 'DUDE!, KICK ARSE! you say "Dear me, jolly old soul, that beat major donkey!")

What is up with this railroading business? It's neccesary! Why do some people complain?

*Bloody Call of Cthulu campaigns.

lgburton · Jun 20, 2005

Arrgh! Mark! said:
There seems to be this big thing about railroading on these boards, and I have a vague suspicion that I do it.

Now, I let the players have their own way in the adventure and go about it as they will. Encounters happen or they don't - things don't neccesarily have to happen in order.

But by god, if they follow an unimportant clue to it's very end, I start giving large clues. Starting with "I wonder if this clue is important? Maybe there's others. What are the other options?" to "That is a silly idea. There's nothing in the Belgian Congo*."

People yap on about railroading, and yet as a DM I believe keeping on the plot is a neccesary thing for both my and player enjoyment. My players never complain about me forcing actions or anything. (Well, apart from a historical fantasy game. But I mean, seriously - you don't say 'DUDE!, KICK ARSE! you say "Dear me, jolly old soul, that beat major donkey!")

What is up with this railroading business? It's neccesary! Why do some people complain?

*Bloody Call of Cthulu campaigns.

it's really a play-style thing. people like to feel in control of their characters, rather than feel like the dm is just telling them what to do. good gms' do an invisible railroad - they just keep focusing, very subtly, the players back on the right path. and it sounds like you do try to do that.

CM · Jun 20, 2005

It's only railroading when somebody else is the DM.

Otherwise it's a tight, brilliant story with no plot holes.

WayneLigon · Jun 20, 2005

It doesn't sound as if you railroad much at all. Railroading would be if things happened regardless of the player actiohs whatever they might be. For example, in one of the early FR modules about the return of Randall Morn there is a scene (if I remember correctly) where this wizard appears and kidnaps him out from under the parties noses or something like that. Nothing you do will prevent this from occuring. Attacks will fail, spells will not affect the wizard, he is able to counter any action by the party that keeps him from creating the next kink in the plot chain. If you were to somehow do this, the entire rest of the module falls apart, much like a train wreck happens if you tear up the tracks. That is railroading.

Arrgh! Mark! · Jun 20, 2005

Ahh. Seems my definition of railroading is wrong. I thought it meant sticking to the plot and trying to get the players to follow it, not taking the game out of the story.

TheAuldGrump · Jun 20, 2005

CM said:
It's only railroading when somebody else is the DM.

Otherwise it's a tight, brilliant story with no plot holes.

No, sadly I know railroading from the inside as well as from without.

I have gotten better, but when I was first starting I had some bad examples to draw upon. I now manipulate rather than railroad, and try to allow for contingencies - more of a flow chart than a linear model. Though it is so much easier to decide that A leads to leads to C... the players need choice.

The Auld Grump, who manipulates less than he used to as well...

Aust Diamondew · Jun 20, 2005

Railroading is when no matter what the PCs do something happens just cause the GM said so.

Von Ether · Jun 20, 2005

Aust Diamondew said:
Railroading is when no matter what the PCs do something happens just cause the GM said so.

Well that depends on perception ...

In a SF game once, the player avoided my adventure hook like the plague. I simply moved the adventure to whatever new planet they landed on. No one was the wiser and a good time was had by all.

Then again, I had a player mad at me simply because I made it manditory that his superspy character show up to the team breifing. ... Oddly enough, he had no problem with manditory briefings when he ran his military game.

Saeviomagy · Jun 20, 2005

Arrgh! Mark! said:
Ahh. Seems my definition of railroading is wrong. I thought it meant sticking to the plot and trying to get the players to follow it, not taking the game out of the story.

There are good railroads and bad railroads.

It's a good railroad when the players don't realise they're on a railroad. Prime examples are where the players head off the track, and miraculously come across the track anyway.

ie - You have a cursed sword. The players want to destroy it. You have a quest all set up to destroy the cursed sword. One of the players commissions a forge with magical protections so he can destroy the sword.

Do you
a) Just tell him it doesn't work, and that he should go to the library to find out how to destroy the sword.
b) Allow him to torture the information for the 'destroy the sword' quest out of the sword in his forge?

Your players are setting up a trip to the belgian congo. Do you
a) Tell them that all the planes are not flying to the belgian congo, and they'd better go somewhere else
b) Tell them that they can either fly later, or catch an earlier flight as long as they're willing to share and make an extra stop? Naturally the people they're sharing with are the cultists on the way to the REAL destination...

All these are railroads. The difference is that the B answers are railroads which take the player choices into account.

Darkness · Jun 20, 2005

Arrgh! Mark! said:
if they follow an unimportant clue to it's very end, I start giving large clues. Starting with "I wonder if this clue is important? Maybe there's others. What are the other options?" to "That is a silly idea. There's nothing in the Belgian Congo*."

That's not railroading. This is railroading:

The party is traveling on a road. Suddenly, the floor breaks in and they all fall into the hole, no perception checks, Dex checks or anything allowed.

At the end of the randomly-generated dungeon they have fallen into, the PCs are to be sent to another plane. How, you ask? Well, by opening a door like any other and immediately getting sucked in, no Str checks or anything allowed, of course.

Railroading is bad?

Arrgh! Mark!

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lgburton

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CM

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WayneLigon

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Arrgh! Mark!

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TheAuldGrump

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Aust Diamondew

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Von Ether

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Saeviomagy

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Darkness

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