Unfair Character Death?

The Thayan Menace · Jul 7, 2005

I am currently DMing in a FRCS campaign, and I am having a hard time dealing with an argumentative player.

This player's rogue character was recently killed by an Evard's Black Tentacles trap and he believes that I purposely set him up to get killed.

Now, the location of the adventure possessed numerous such traps and the party had set two of them off before the rogue succumbed to a third.

The player with the rogue told me that he did not know that these tentacle effects were magical traps, and, if he did, he would have actively searched for them throughout the adventure.

Although I described the visual effects of the Evard's traps to the party, he feels that because I did not explicitly state that they were magical traps, he assumed that they represented some type of evil magic that he could not disable.

This player claims that I screwed him over by not providing enough information and he demands an apology.

What should I do?

Aeson · Jul 7, 2005

Nothing

You didn't do anything wrong. It is his fault not yours.

The Thayan Menace · Jul 7, 2005

Being Civil

This player is actually a good friend of mine and I don't want to offend him, but he's really being abusive about this.

I was willing to let bygones-be-bygones, and admit that I could have been more forthcoming about the nature of what his character was facing. After all, his PC was a skilled Thayan rogue, and he would have known what a magical trap was (even if his player did not).

However, this player was not satisfied with this concession. He demanded a full apology and an admission that I needlessly killed his character.

Rodrigo Istalindir · Jul 7, 2005

Wah.

The character apparently *wasn't* a skilled Thayan rogue, else he'd have known that they might be magical traps (especially after setting two of them off). Any player that refuses to show initiative and assumes the DM will hand him stuff on a silver platter merely because of the characters level or background is lazy and deserves to die. That's like a player with a mage that casts a fireball at something resistant to fire and then whining to the DM that their character would have known better. Characters know because of what they experience in the game, and that's reflected in how the player runs them.

It would have taken nothing more than the player saying 'Hmm..these keep popping up out of nowhere. I'm going to keep any eye out for glyphs or other triggers.'

Crothian · Jul 7, 2005

Does his character have any ranks in Knowledge Arcana? Spellcraft? Any levels of Wizard or Sorcerery? Cleric levels with the Magic Domain? Bardic Knowledge?

If the answer to all of those is no, then the character had no reason to think the tenticles were a spell.

BWP · Jul 7, 2005

The Thayan Menace said:
The player with the rogue told me that he did not know that these tentacle effects were magical traps ... Although I described the visual effects of the Evard's traps to the party, he feels that because I did not explicitly state that they were magical traps, he assumed that they represented some type of evil magic that he could not disable.

Well, I'm assuming that you don't want to piss this guy off further. So you want to try and handle this diplomatically. I would point out that you can't be held responsible for what he assumes, and if he's not sure about something, all he has to do is ask you. Horrible tentacles that just appear out of nowhere would strike me as being magical in nature!

The Thayan Menace said:
This player claims that I screwed him over by not providing enough information and he demands an apology. What should I do?

He screwed himself over. You have nothing you need to apologise for.

Of course, if you do want to piss him off, just tell him to shut up and stop being an idiot.

DonTadow · Jul 7, 2005

The Thayan Menace said:
This player is actually a good friend of mine and I don't want to offend him, but he's really being abusive about this.

I was willing to let bygones-be-bygones, and admit that I could have been more forthcoming about the nature of what his character was facing. After all, his PC was a skilled Thayan rogue, and he would have known what a magical trap was (even if his player did not).

However, this player was not satisfied with this concession. He demanded a full apology and an admission that I needlessly killed his character.

Now it just sounds like he's whining about your decisions. You need to express to him that as dm there are times you need to make judgement calls and you have faith that your call was right. TEll him you see his point of view and see where he could come up with his assessment but, you believe that you made adequately described the traps. Sometime s bad luck happens and characters die. Tell him youre sorry if he thinks you made the wrong decision but the decision has already been made. Tell him yo'd like to continue with the game and his complaining about the judgemnets is hurting the game for him and the other players. Don't be too demandin but tell him if he feels as if he can not trust yoru decsion makings thaen you guys should still be friends but maybe he should take a break from the campaign for a bit.

BWP · Jul 7, 2005

The Thayan Menace said:
This player is actually a good friend of mine and I don't want to offend him, but he's really being abusive about this.

You need to ask yourself, if he's such a good friend, why is he going out of his way to offend you?

The Thayan Menace said:
I was willing to let bygones-be-bygones, and admit that I could have been more forthcoming about the nature of what his character was facing. After all, his PC was a skilled Thayan rogue, and he would have known what a magical trap was (even if his player did not). However, this player was not satisfied with this concession. He demanded a full apology and an admission that I needlessly killed his character.

Now he's just being a jerk. At this point I'd be saying: "You made a mistake, and you paid the price. Now stop whining and accept the responsibility for it."

Quicken · Jul 7, 2005

I'd buy him a beer and hand him some d6's. Start rolling that new character bub. D&D is like the game of life sometimes. Sh*t happens and then you die.

Patryn of Elvenshae · Jul 7, 2005

I've got a couple comments.

1. Is the player generally argumentative, or is he specifically argumentative in this case?

2. The player, in this case, is probably wrong. However, this does not mean that you are not *also* wrong.

Consider a normal, mechanical trap. I assume, when you describe someone setting one off, you say something like, "You hear a snap as a small vial inside the lock breaks, and poison drips out onto your hand," or, "You stumble as a stone block shifts under your feet, and the floor begins to open up underneath you."

In short, it's probably pretty obvious to the player when he's set off a mechanical trap.

Did your descriptions of the magical traps make it equally clear what had happened? Did you describe a nearly invisible line of runes, and the scuff mark across them the rogue's boot had just left? Or, as I suspect, did the spell effects just appear out of nowhere?

Did you let your players know - after rolling Spot and Listen checks for the party, perhaps - that they neither saw nor heard anyone casting a spell nearby? Did the party wizard / arcanist get a Spellcraft or Knowledge (Arcana) check to recognize that this particular effect wasn't the result of an immediately-cast spell?

In short, are you sure you did your job correctly, before you take this player to task?

If yes, then you've got no problems.

Unfair Character Death?

The Thayan Menace

First Post

Aeson

I am the mysterious professor.

The Thayan Menace

First Post

Rodrigo Istalindir

Explorer

Crothian

First Post

BWP

Explorer

DonTadow

First Post

BWP

Explorer

Quicken

First Post

Patryn of Elvenshae

First Post

Similar Threads

Voidrunner's Codex