An idea about character classes; your opinion wanted

Well, this is mostly for the sake of discussion, yet who knows what I could do out of it, so I would be glad to get your imput:

This idea stems from many threads I have read at one time or another, and the concern I have with classes. Shortly: I like "traditional" core classes such as given in D&D or d20SW, and then I much like the d20 Modern or Grim Tales class sytem; however, I thought of mixing them as follows:

-- A set of ten (or so) base core classes (with 20 levels) that would propose professions types of classes (soldier, noble, rogue, psion, etc.).
-- A set of six "prestige" classes (with 10 levels) that would propose adventuring classes that emphasize one ability score (Strong, Smart, etc., with lots of talents as in Grim Tales).

This idea is exactly the reverse of d20 Modern where you mix the six base classes then add an advanced class. My idea here, is that you begin with a professional class, but later when you become an adventurer, turn more into a Jack-of-all-trades learning a bit of everything as suit your fancies and opportunities. So the choice of feats and talents at every level makes sense and is cool for people who like to customize a lot. On the other hand, with the base professional classes it's easier for the GM to create NPCs that also tend to be defined by their professions, and all players who don't like d20 Modern classes are not obliged to use them.

Comments, suggestions?

I don't see the point in the stat classes to fill the JoT role.

Why not just create a somewhat generic JoT class to cover your "generic adventurer?"

Now, admittedly, if one liked the stat classes and how they worked, i would see this idea differently, but for me, they did little good so i don't see why adding them in as opposed to a class designed to cover the role "generic adventurer" is going to work any better than it did.

IMX most modern characters are not based around an attribute, and grouping skills by attributes rarely covers the concept as well.

I don't know about you, but the soldiers handing the binocs to the medic so the medic could scout out the facilities (since doc wisdom got spot) just turned me right off in our play.

Personally, I rather like the class system the way it is.
I wouldn't mess with it, other than to create Advanced or Prestige classes to fit your specific needs.

I want something *else*.

After playing d20 modern, I want generic classes. I love being able to swap between them freely and pick up different progressions and abilities.

I'm playing D&D 3.5 with friends now and I feel like I'm in a straight jacket. I can cross class, but there isn't anywere to go.

My fighter wants more combat specializaion and/or skills - but doesn't want to become a spellcaster or someone who hides in the shadows stabbing people.

It would be perfect to take a level of Smart and snake the skills.

I might be able to go for a few levels of Ranger, but my character doesn't like spellcasters so he can't learn magic.

Maybe I wouldn't mind a Profession/Job Class system (which is what D&D is) if all of the abilities were reduced to Feats and you could just say "This doesn't fit my character... swap"

What about someone who wants to be like a bardic swashbucker and not a magic singer? What if you want to be diplomatic and charismatic, but not a bard?

They just tack on too much baggage in D&D. If you don't fit the molds they've given you, then you're in for an uncomfortable game.

So a profession class defines the base character and they can either stick with that or multiclass or get flexible JoT ability prestige classes as they come into their own. Should work I'd think.

So Han solo would be a pilot who later picked up charisma and fast hero prc levels. Would work fine I think.

IMO, you're going to mess things up creating "profession" classes. Pretty soon they'd spiral out of control like PrCs. I think more powerful occupations might be a better idea, instead. (Occupations are broad and can be easily designed without having to create or buy a new class.)

Denaes said:

After playing d20 modern, I want generic classes. I love being able to swap between them freely and pick up different progressions and abilities.

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Then...

swrushing said:

Now, admittedly, if one liked the stat classes and how they worked, I would see this idea differently, but for me, they did little good so I don't see why adding them in as opposed to a class designed to cover the role "generic adventurer" is going to work any better than it did.

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This is precisely the fact that some people hate the generic d20 Modern classes and others love them, that incite me to do this system. Now the d20 Modern implies first having one or more base "stat classes", then evolving into a single profession (soldier, medic, etc.). My grip here is mainly as a DM who must come up with NPCs and with people who don't like the stat-classes. With base profession classes, I think it's easier-faster for me to create NPCs, and players who hate stat-classes won't be required to play them. On the other hand, those who love stat-classes will have to wait the 4th level to take them.

C. Baize said:

Personally, I rather like the class system the way it is.
I wouldn't mess with it, other than to create Advanced or Prestige classes to fit your specific needs.

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I love to design classes, it's an obsession of mine, I don't know why. The base classes would be inspired from d20 Modern/Future, Star-Wars d20, and Traveller20, so it's clearly a mess... On the other hand, the six base d20 Modern classes would remain unchanged, only explaining they become advanced classes that can be taken at 3rd level, and that have many more talents, ala Grim Tales. The fluff would be to tell they are Smart/Strong/etc. adventurers rather than Smart/Strong/etc. heroes.

swrushing said:

I don't know about you, but the soldiers handing the binocs to the medic so the medic could scout out the facilities (since doc wisdom got spot) just turned me right off in our play.

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The d20 Modern soldier advanced class has Spot as a class skill. The SWd20 soldier core class doesn't have it however. I was considering creating my own set of base classes (and in fact 85% of the fluff is already written and dormant on my hard drive), and would have given Spot as a class skill to soldiers.



Anyway, I am here toying with the concept of implementing this. I have got the idea and actually thought it was brilliant... Nonetheless I would be glad to get other ENworlders' opinion on that subject while my brain cools down...

Well, another idea would be to have Grim Tales / d20 Modern classes available at the same time as a set of core-profession classes, only striving to reach some sort of balance between the two. Maybe there is no need to turn the 6 stat classes into sorts of advanced classes? But it's just as it looks like an interesting idea.

Anymore comments?

(Psi)SeveredHead said:

IMO, you're going to mess things up creating "profession" classes. Pretty soon they'd spiral out of control like PrCs.

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Hehehe, the RPGer's sin: creating classes that weren't playtested. Okay, I admit to be a sinner, but to my defense I was going to take close inspiration from existing stuff (d20SW, Traveller, Dragonstar, X-psi-hb, and existing d20 Modern advanced classes).

(Psi)SeveredHead said:

I think more powerful occupations might be a better idea, instead. (Occupations are broad and can be easily designed without having to create or buy a new class.)

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A valid idea, but occupations IMO don't help ease PC and NPC creation, plus it doesn't meet my fancies.

Well, I'm a pretty big advocate of the Gestalt, but I don't think it works as well in futuristic as it does in fantasy. (Which is odd, since fantasy has more confining social roles.) Not to mention, it's harder to come up with a long enough list of core classes in futuristic games for Gestalt to provide variety.

What I want to see, and what I'm trying to do (but I'm spinning my wheels) is to combine the class systems from d20 Modern and Alternity-- you have two seperate class systems. At first level, you choose an occupational class that works with your Occupation, providing a handful of class skills and some modification to your abilities. Maybe even some class features, but no HD, BAB, or Defense of its own. Then, you have d20 Modern's generic base classes, Advanced Classes, and Prestige Classes.

That way, you can have a, say, Smart/Charismatic Combat Spec (Law Enforcement), a Fast/Dedicated Diplomat (Entrepeneur), and a Strong/Tough Tech Op (Medical).

Voadam said:

So Han solo would be a pilot who later picked up charisma and fast hero prc levels. Would work fine I think.

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This is pretty much the idea. What I have noticed (or believe to have noticed) so far is:

1) Many players like profession core classes (soldier, scoundrel, pilot, etc.) as they help describe the kind of game and setting. It also ease their job of creating a character when they are not keen on d20 Modern, point-buy, or what not.
2) Some players do like to customize their PCs, and I think the 6 stat-classes with additional talents are perfect for that.
3) A majority of players don't care for prestige classes except as an excuse to add special abilities to their characters. Also, having to take special feats and skills is often seen boring and not worth the hassle. (I speak mostly about the players I know.) As such, there is no real need for a whole lot of classes, while the six base classes just enable to add customization and special abilities perfectly.

I would like to add this: the 6 stat-classes would be available at 4th level (like usual advanced classes); but as my campaigns always begin at 3rd level, players would only have to wait a couple of adventures before adding such classes if they wished to.