Scout's Skirmish, Spiked Chain, and AoO's

Radiating Gnome · Sep 9, 2005

For a new campaign I'm planning, a player is talking about a pretty specific Scout-AoO master build, and I wanted to make sure that there aren't problems in this plan. I *think* it works, and if I didn't have this forum to ask, I'd just allow it, but I'd like to hear what you think.

The Character is planning to play a scout with Exotic Weapon (spiked chain) and combat reflexes. Later he'll add other feats (dodge, mobility, spring attack) to make moving around easier, but the core of his plan is to use the wide AoO threatening area of the spiked chain, and the multilple AoOs provided by combat reflexes, to be able to deliver his extra skirmish damage more than once a round.

So, in a fight, he would move at least 10' position himself where he believes he will be most effective. Then until his next turn, he can have up to his maximum # of AoO's, each one doing extra skirmish damage.

IMO, it follows the letter of the rules, I think it matches the spirit of them as well, and given that this bit of powergaming requires two feats minimum to really work, and then even more feats to make it really powerful, I don't think it's broken.

But . . . anyone have a problem with it?

-rg

cmanos · Sep 9, 2005

I don't have the scout rules on me and am not 100% clear on the skirmish rules. My thought is "do you really get the skirmish damage for attacks of opportunity?"

mikebr99 · Sep 9, 2005

Radiating Gnome said:
For a new campaign I'm planning, a player is talking about a pretty specific Scout-AoO master build, and I wanted to make sure that there aren't problems in this plan. I *think* it works, and if I didn't have this forum to ask, I'd just allow it, but I'd like to hear what you think.

The Character is planning to play a scout with Exotic Weapon (spiked chain) and combat reflexes. Later he'll add other feats (dodge, mobility, spring attack) to make moving around easier, but the core of his plan is to use the wide AoO threatening area of the spiked chain, and the multilple AoOs provided by combat reflexes, to be able to deliver his extra skirmish damage more than once a round.

So, in a fight, he would move at least 10' position himself where he believes he will be most effective. Then until his next turn, he can have up to his maximum # of AoO's, each one doing extra skirmish damage.

IMO, it follows the letter of the rules, I think it matches the spirit of them as well, and given that this bit of powergaming requires two feats minimum to really work, and then even more feats to make it really powerful, I don't think it's broken.

But . . . anyone have a problem with it?

-rg

No... But try to get Enlarge from the party Mage, for an even larger threat range.

Mike

Radiating Gnome · Sep 9, 2005

cmanos said:
I don't have the scout rules on me and am not 100% clear on the skirmish rules. My thought is "do you really get the skirmish damage for attacks of opportunity?"

That is one of the key questions here, but there has been enough discussion of that in other threads on this board -- even if not directly -- that I think that it's largely agreed that a scout DOES get skirmish damage on AoOs.

And, think about it. If a rogue were able to take an AoO under conditions that allowed her an AoO, she would deal the extra sneak attack damage. Skirmish and Sneak attack are not quite the same thing, but are close enough for analogy.

-rg

The Grackle · Sep 9, 2005

"SKirmish(Ex): A Scout relies on mobility to deal extra damage and improve her defense. She deals an extra 1d6 damage on all attacks she makes in any round in which she moves at least ten feet. The extra damage applies only to attacks taken during the scout's turn...

...At third level the scout gains a +1 competence bonus to Armor Class during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet. The bonus applies as soon as the scout has moved 10 feet, and lasts until the start of her next turn."

IndyPendant · Sep 9, 2005

Wow. If that hasn't been errata'd, it seems pretty clear. The scout doesn't get Skirmish on AoO's.

And the Scout also then royally blows chunks, since Skirmish is pretty much what the Scout is about... : )

mikebr99 · Sep 9, 2005

IndyPendant said:
Wow. If that hasn't been errata'd, it seems pretty clear. The scout doesn't get Skirmish on AoO's.

And the Scout also then royally blows chunks, since Skirmish is pretty much what the Scout is about... : )

Ahh... this is the Rules section. Pick a side!

Mike

Radiating Gnome · Sep 10, 2005

IndyPendant said:
Wow. If that hasn't been errata'd, it seems pretty clear. The scout doesn't get Skirmish on AoO's.

Well, naturally enough, it HAS been errated. Here's the new version:

"she deals and extra 1d6 points of damage on all attacks she makes during any round in which she moves at least 10 feet away from where she was at the start of her turn. The extra damage applies only to attacks made after the scout has moved at least 10 feet. The skirmish ability cannot be used while mounted."

The errata REMOVES the "on her turn" statement, but does not replace it with one that says she gets the extra damage on all attacks until her next turn.

So . . . it's not perfectly clear anymore.

For my own game, as I said, I'm inclined to allow it. Anyone have any other references that might shed light on this? Has it been addressed by the Sage at all?

-rg

Hypersmurf · Sep 11, 2005

Radiating Gnome said:
The errata REMOVES the "on her turn" statement...

No, it doesn't.

The quoted item from the errata replaces the second sentence of the Skirmish description. "The extra damage applies only to attacks taken during the scout's turn" is the third sentence of the Skirmish description, and is completely unaffected by the errata.

A Scout can apply Skirmish damage to an AoO, but only if it's an AoO taken during her turn.

Example - the scout moves fifteen feet, to attack an ogre, and provokes an AoO by moving through the ogre's reach. The ogre attempts to disarm the scout with the AoO, provoking an AoO in turn. The scout uses that AoO to hit the ogre; since the AoO occurs during the scout's turn, skirmish damage applies.

The ogre's disarm fails, and the scout complete her turn, attacking the ogre once and applying skirmish damage again.

Now it's the ogre's turn, and he attempts to disarm once more, provoking another AoO since the scout has Combat Reflexes. She hits him once more, but since it is no longer her turn, skirmish damage is inapplicable.

-Hyp.

Scout's Skirmish, Spiked Chain, and AoO's

Radiating Gnome

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cmanos

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mikebr99

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Radiating Gnome

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The Grackle

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IndyPendant

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Hypersmurf

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