World Building - Suggestions Please (be kind lol)

I've had ideas floating in poor brain for years for a campaign world. However, every time I try to write it all out, I get flustered and end up quitting. I can't draw a straight line with a ruler, so making any kind of world or area map is out of the question.

But, I've ran adventures and short campaigns all from the top of my head using my own little slice of DnD, and everyone I've played with always want to know more and see a finished product and thought it was great. I, myself have always wondered what it would look like in the end.

I wrote my questions, then described a little of the world below.

The questions I have are:
1. Should I bother? Does the stuff below sound 'done too often'? Does it sound interesting?
2. If I should bother, how should I begin? Since I don't have much help, it's been quite a chore.


A few details...

On one part of the world, Kingdoms strive for dominance. Some keep their ways noble and just, preferring diplomacy and open, honorable combat if needed. Other kingdoms use subterfuge, spies, rumor-planting and double-crossing to get ahead. And still, there are those that resort to terror, burning, pillaging, and other brutal methods to vie for power.

In another land, tribes led by powerful shamans roam the mountains and plains. They train their warriors in the ways of honor, with the staff or spear, as they war against each other for resources.. and against the outsiders who encroach further onto their lands.

In ages past, Halflings were hired in times of war to smuggle goods through enemy lines, due to the 'tall races' underestimation of them. In the present day, they have adapted to becoming the skilled merchants of the world. In even the largest human cities, Halflings can be found running businesses, both legal and not so much.

The Gods may grant spells to their followers, but little can be heard from the deities themselves. Agents often act on the behalf of the Gods, with or without any divine suggestion.

Elven ruins litter the great forests of the world, overrun with many horrors. As the Elves themselves faced extinction, they turned to their human allies for aid. As it now stands, many large human kingdoms contain thousands of scattered Elven refugees. Over the past few years, due to this change, many Half-Elves have been born into the world.

To the south, Orcish necromancers continue to summon vile creatures from the Abyss to do their bidding. Defeating their Elven enemies after a centuries-long war, they now seek to bring an unholy demonic legion into the world. Their Ogre slaves rattle their chains at the prospect of bloodshed.

Giants begin to hatch their own plans to ban together, while many dragons of the world escape into hibernation.

The great Dwarven armies have crushed the tide of goblins, leaving the green skins fleeing into the darkest, most hidden areas of the world to escape execution. What they've found there may give them the revenge they so desire.

A lone island sends agents into the world to gather those with a hint of psionic gifts and to bring them back to join the fold of their brethren.. willingly or not.

Kristivas said:

I've had ideas floating in poor brain for years for a campaign world. However, every time I try to write it all out, I get flustered and end up quitting. I can't draw a straight line with a ruler, so making any kind of world or area map is out of the question.

But, I've ran adventures and short campaigns all from the top of my head using my own little slice of DnD, and everyone I've played with always want to know more and see a finished product and thought it was great. I, myself have always wondered what it would look like in the end.

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Okay, my best piece of advice is this: a campaign world is NEVER 'done', unless you stop playing in it.

In my experience, the best way to start is with a binder full of notes, then gradually organize them as needed. (Binders are better than notebooks because of the ease of moving stuff around, inserting new info, etc.) Jot down everything and keep all your notes- you never know when the players will ask about the merchant from 7 sessions ago, or the name of that inn in that town they passed through last year.

I usually start small and work my way out. The big stuff fills itself in after the pcs start adventuring. (Then again, I prefer to let the players guide the campaign most of the time, so that's just a matter of taste.) I find that a few large-scale details are a great way to start, accompanied by a well-detailed starting area (village, town, etc) with plenty of hooks in it.

The one thing I strongly recommend setting up before play are the guidelines on what's acceptable. There are many campaigns without certain races or classes, while in others, anything goes. Perhaps you have a house rule that covers things that are important that players know before making their characters. Decide this kind of stuff at the beginning of the campaign.

And run games to fill in the blanks.

Kristivas said:

The questions I have are:
1. Should I bother? Does the stuff below sound 'done too often'? Does it sound interesting?
2. If I should bother, how should I begin? Since I don't have much help, it's been quite a chore.

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The stuff certainly sounds like a good homebrew campaign - some nice ideas. But it doesn't seem to me like you don't want to bother writing it all up into a cohesive campaign. So I would say no, you shouldn't bother.

I'd recommend figuring out what is it you want to write and why, and who is your audience. When I write about my campaigns, it is generally to satisfy my creative needs or as a branistorming excercise, and with a vague idea that some of my players, and perhaps a few others, will read and appreciate it. As such, I tend to write short pieces describing one aspect or another of the campaign, and often from an in-game prespective. Some I publish on the campaign's website, most stay forever locked away on my computer.

There is no need to produce a comprehensive, organized, campaign setting book. Write what you enjoy writing, draw maps for yourself with crooked lines and haphazard notes, and tha's all. You are not going to get this campaign published, don't bother producing a "book".

Another suggestion is to get your players involved. Perhaps they can write notes about your world, in or out of character. Rewarding players for submitting background material and plot hooks, through XP, can encourage this. Perhaps setting up a wiki can aid in this matter too.

Edit: I would also suggest asking the moderators to move this to the General forum, where you would get more traffic. I don't see why this belongs in House Rules, and I'm sure ENWorlder's wiser than me can help you out more.

Rome was not built in a day....

...so don't expect an entire worl to be written in a few years.

Campaign worlds should be and are, living breathing things. There may be a big reason for everything but you should not expect your self to know it or your players to understand it.

My advice???

1) Start big then shelve it:

What I mean is start with some of the ground rules on how and why things work. What are the races, who are the deities, how does magic work or not work. What are some of the major themes of conflict in the world. What is the average technology level. Once you have the broad strokes, put it all away.

2) Focus small:

The best way to build a world is over time a by disparity. When you start a campaign flesh out a part of the worl that the campaign will start in. A region or a kingdom and flesh that out a little more. Use the big picture as your touch stone but don't be bound by it. In my experience, the first 5-6 levels normally all take place with in a region no larger than 100-150 mile radius (YMMV).

3) Write alot:

This is the hard part as it takes a certain degree of discipline.

And to your question "Is it worth it", in my opinion all creative efforts are worth it. Derivitive or not. You would be suprised at how few truely new ideas there are.

Thanks for the input, guys. That does kinda put it into perspective for me.

*kneels down and prays* "Oh great moderators, please move this thread to the general area where it would be more appropriate. I was writing this post at like 2 am and must have scrambled my own brain. Forgive me! Sacrifices of kittens will be made to appease you, oh lords! I humbly prostrate myself before you!" (lol)

Kristivas said:

1. Should I bother? Does the stuff below sound 'done too often'? Does it sound interesting?

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Should you bother? Only you can answer that. World building is as much an exercise just for your own fun as it is trying to create something for everyone else to see. Do it if you enjoy it. If it's no fun or too much like WORK then look for an alternate solution.

Does it sound "done too often"? Again that's a question for you - or more importantly to your potential players. It sounds fine to me but then I tend to gravitate to the tried and true rather than trying to do something so wild and radical that nobody (including me) can get a real handle on what the world is.

It sounds interesting enough to me.

2. If I should bother, how should I begin? Since I don't have much help, it's been quite a chore.

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Start SMALL. It generally takes a fair amount of experience at world-building to design from the top-down and have it come out the way you want it to at the level of player-interaction. Don't try to start with a map of the entire globe when players are only going to be concerned with an area that's a few hundred miles in radius.

Start with a small town or even a mere village and someplace nearby for initial adventures. Expand from there to larger towns, more distant hills and forests, what's on the OTHER side of that big river, etc. Design it in the sequence that the player characters are most likely to explore it. Don't worry too much about the terrain making real-world sense. If you want frozen lands of snow try to put them in to the far north (or far south as the case may be). Otherwise when you want a river - put in a river. When you want a land of plains on the other side of the mountains - then put a land of plains on the other side of the mountains. If you want ocean nearby to be able to put in some seagoing adventures then put it in wherever you want it, add a few port cities and towns at the mouth of rivers, establish that there are trade ships and caravans that move in that direction and all's well.

As you expand your world out from the initial area that PC's are likely to start in you can place kingdoms and peoples appropriately. Don't try to squeeze EVERYTHING into the initial spaces - just because you want two kingdoms to be at war doesn't mean they have to be RIGHT next to each other. It might even work better if they have to go tromping through a third country in-between.

Create something interesting or unknown about each piece of the world for PC's to discover, but it doesn't have to be anything Earth-shattering or even something that will concern the PC's directly.

Stick VERY closely to the core rules to start. Use optional prestige classes, races, and rules very sparingly. A little goes a long way. MORE is actually seldom better. Too many "kitchen sink" campaigns start to look like the sinks garbage disposal backed up. Keep it lean and mean.

Communicate with your players early and often - not just to find out what they like or dislike about your campaign world but to let them know what YOU are trying to emphasis or keep out of it. Also players need to know what your opinions are on topics like alignment, how strict you want to be with rules enforcement, how much hack/slash vs. roleplaying you're intending to have and YOU need to know THEIR opinions in turn so that you can better gear the creation of your world to the players that are going to be intimately a part OF it with the actions of their PC's.

hello all

well, first off, congradulations for deciding to make you own campaign. i am 17 now, and i have been creating mine for the past 5 years, on and off. Perhaps some of my best work has happened over this past summer and the previous one as well, and i am slowly, ever so slowly, creating something which i will work with, create for, and play in for a very long time.

It does take a lot of patience to do this; but you can become discouraged by WB-block (world-builders block, very similar to writers block ) adn by other things as well >

Yair said:

The stuff certainly sounds like a good homebrew campaign . . . *BUT* . . . I would say no, you shouldn't bother.

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stuff like this, it doesnt help. i would argue the point that since you have taken the time to even post that you wish to make something comprehensive and concrete, that you DO want to make this, you just need initiative, and a pat on the back to let you know that you are doing something good

and you are; creating my D&D campaign world is one of my most time-consuming past-times, and it helps with many things that many people dont even realise. When building a campaign, you have to do a bunch of calculatiosn in your head, have a good (or better) imagination, have some skill with drawing, writing, etc. And not only that, its enjoyable.

Yair said:

There is no need to produce a comprehensive, organized, campaign setting book. Write what you enjoy writing, draw maps for yourself with crooked lines and haphazard notes, and tha's all. You are not going to get this campaign published, don't bother producing a "book".

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As for imagination, and this comment, i say take it to whatever level you wish to. I don't own Acrobat Writer (gods, i dont even know the proper name, but you get the idea) but i plan to and write MY campaign up. I plan to try to sell it when it is complete. and what is wrong with that? nothing at all. So do yourself a favour, and dont listen to Yair. do what you will, but dont stress over the little stuff. Overwise, you forget the important stuff.

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Now, to actual details on building your campaign, It IS all about personal style (starting bid > going small, or vice-versa) but either way, you need to consider you players first. Create your base races (or use standard ones) create classes (or use standard ones) and make the theme for them and your world in general. It seems that you have. Orcs are Necromatic Demon-summoners who enslaved the Ogres, Elves are nearly extinct, but their half-elven descendants live on in their place (for the most part), Goblinoids are extinct, the Dwarves are thriving; Halflings are powerful merchants in many cases, and humans have a variety of kingdoms and such to call home. You do not mention gnomes, but neither do you have to have them in your campaign. IMC, gnomes are a more "traditional" creatures, being minor faries like in medieval folklore, and are not playable as charcters (But then, that is my approach, and you don't have to take it that way). Back to theme, what is your worlds? for example, my campaign has definite Tolkien overtones, along with pure folklore and mythology themes, and is set in a place that is very much like Europe in about 1050 AD. What is your inspiration? why do you ahve your Orcs the way they are? why do you not have many Elves? Why are there so many Dwarves? What countries are your Human nations based off of? You need to maybe compile a list of movies, books, pictures, etc that have influenced you to do things this way. This was done in the start of the Ebberron CS with movies, but i had been compiling a list of influences long before that. You can alwasy refer to those things, so they are an excellent way of introducing your world to new players, etc. Many of my players are noobs to D&D in general, so i gave them some of RA Salvatores Forgotten Realms books to read, and one guy is enjoying the Cleric Quintet immensly and he is getting his very first taste of FRCS.

Anyways, good luck, and keep us updated, and hand out any issues you have with tricky parts. I for one can help you lots; i dont mind creating even if i will never ever use it IMG . Cheers

Nyaricus, that was a great post and exactly what I was looking for.

You mentioned 2 things just about everyone asks me.
1. Why are there so few elves?
and...
2. You never mention gnomes.

If you were wondering..

1. The Elves, though good, have always been haughty and aloof. When they began warring with the Orcs, their egos got the better of them and they chose to fight the war alone, rather than enlist the aid of the 'lesser' races. The Orcs, on the other hand, were making deals with demons for power, which gave them the strength to subdue large numbers of Ogres. By the time the Elves learned their 'lesson', it was too late. I'd like to make it part of the campaign for the Elves to come together under a new leader. I'd really want to make that an epic-type of adventure (think RttToEE sized). The reason the Dwarves won their war was because of their allies, two human kingdoms and halfling 'business partners'. The Elves, if they can ever reform their old nations, probably won't make the same mistake twice.

2. The Gnomes, on the whole, have been embroiled in a civil war with their Svirfneblin cousins for ages. The war has left both races in financial ruin with casualties too numerous to count. When the game begins, the war will have ended at a stalemate with the 'good' gnomes forsaking most of their deep underground homes and coming back to the surface. The upside of said war is that Gnomish technology made great leaps in times of desperation (though, nothing too fancy. I don't want to lose the middle-ages feel).


*I started writing these past few days, and started small like suggested, though I didn't start too small. I picked a country (Sul'koradas) and wrote breif descriptions of the landscapes and brief descriptions of the 13 tribes that inhabit this large region and their state of government and such. I plan to do more later tonight to flesh it out. From all of the info I've gathered from you guys, I'm going to take that approach for now. Start with an area, then kinda flesh it out more and more, then shelve it for awhile and move on to something else.

Making realm-specific PrCs will be kinda tough, but luckily I have awhile to think about it.

See links in my sig...

also try:http://www.io.com/~eighner/world_builder/world_builder_index.html

Sorry about that long abscence, I accidentaly didn't subscribe to this thread, but i found it again lurking through old ones

Well, it seems like you have some good ideas rolling already! Thats awesome!!! It's always interesting to see how campaigns develop. IMC, i originally had gnomes, but as i kept reading Tolkien's works (and others, like Terry Goodkind, David Drake, Steven Erikson, to name a few awesome authors) and more about real-world mythology and folklore, i decided on making a hybrid of the two > basically, use tolkien as a base, but everything else is inspired by real-world mythology (so no "made-up" races, like lizardfolk or mind flayers). Why do i do it that way? I beleive that the real world already has such amazing depth in its mythologies that i don't need to suppliment it with made-up creatures and concepts. Thus, i am taking on a big job, what with re-making basically every race and monster and class and PrC that are applicable in the real world. Thus, gnomes got the boot to fairy-creatures, whereas Elves, dwarves and halfings (AKA hobbits) are based on a middle-earth concept.

And thast just an example, a tiny little example of what you could do with your world. It is, as the cliche goes, "a world of possibilities." So please keep us updated on how it goes; perhaps re-naming this post "____________ Campaign Setting Journal" or something like that ;-)