I hand waived 6 levels...

punkorange

First Post

• Sep 11, 2005

• #1

Yup, I hand waived a year or two and four levels of game play. I've been kind of out of the DMing "feel" for the past few months when we game, but I feel obligated to DM, and I really do enjoy DMing even though sometimes It would be nice to play. I also felt the group was kind of non-excited about the campaign so I made the decision to hand wave four levels, putting the group at level ten.

I have been DMing for close to eight years, and due to groups disappearing and coming back a month later with a different set of characters, or total party kills I don't ever remember DMing a group that high of level; even though it probably isn't really all that high of level. So I'm asking for advice.

I think I am going to start Tuesday’s session off with having the group fight a mature adult white dragon (CR 12). I have already accomplished getting the group excited about the game and getting myself excited about DMing them, but with all of us being in new territory here (this is the highest level this group has ever played too) I just thought I could use and hints or tips provided by ENners.

 

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Babylon Knight

First Post

• Sep 11, 2005

• #2

In my experience fighting an Ancient Blue Dragon with a party around level 16-17, i can tell you this.

It is a BAD IDEA to put a group 2-4 levels under the CR of a creature (dragon) that is overpowered for it's CR to fight. Unless the party has some AMAZING gear and those help stats/saves in a significant fashion, having them battle even a White Dragon is just begging for the party to get completely killed.

Don't even get me started about their lairs...

If you really want to go through with this, you're going to either have to empower the players even moreso, or impede/cripple/hinder the dragon in some fashion (fighting in an unfamiliar/hostile enviroment, lowered hit points, lesser DR / spellcasting capabilities), or both.

Above all, remember you are the White Dragon, so that will also dictate how ingenious the players are allowed to be.

If you'd like more in-depth help, please describe the group in question, the campaign setting and how you want the encounter to run.

 

Last edited: Sep 11, 2005

punkorange

First Post

• Sep 11, 2005

• #3

So I should find a lower CR, closer to 10?

 

Babylon Knight

First Post

• Sep 11, 2005

• #4

Yes, that is certainly a good first step

There are ways to bring the dragon down to CR 10, and there are also more dragons that are exactly at CR 10 to begin with.

What kind of area/climate will they be facing it at anyhow?

 

punkorange

First Post

• Sep 11, 2005

• #5

I'm not too sure, it was going to be based on the dragon type. It doesn't really have to be a dragon either, just something exciting and unique. Then again they have never played tenth level characters so anything will be exciting and unique.

They are going to be finding a rare spell component (which I was thinking could be the heard of a dragon) but it could be anything really, I'm just looking for something fun and different than the goblin, hill giants, etc that the group is used too.

 

Babylon Knight

First Post

• Sep 11, 2005

• #6

1. Constructs are always fun
2. A templated creature, such as a Half Earth Elemental Werewolf
3. Undead if played correctly can be memorable as well.

If possible, you can refer to what i said about the setting and have the fight occur in a place that's odd or nervewracking (cliffside, top of a tower, under the sea)

 

Tinner

First Post

• Sep 11, 2005

• #7

punkorange said:

So I should find a lower CR, closer to 10?

Click to expand...

Yes, especially if you're using a dragon.
Try an Adult White Dragon. That's a CR 10. I while playing, you think te PC's are having too easy a time, just add more hit points.
Better to chose to weak a dragon and then scale up, than choose too strong, and have a TPK on your hands.

Play a CR 10 dragon smart, and it will be plenty of challenge for the party.
Flying attacks, stay out of bow range, use the icy terrain to your advantage, etc.
If you have Draconomicon, try some of the Metabreath feats in there to make this dragon a unique challenge. Clinging Breath, Quicken Breath and Recover Breath are some of my favorites.

Most of all, keep things fast, furious and fun.
Even if your PC's manage to wipe the floor with the dragon, give them a while to bask in their success, then send it's momma after them in a few levels.

 

Babylon Knight

First Post

• Sep 11, 2005

• #8

Don't forget to make the treasure worth it, don't be afraid to embellish a little.

 

F

Ferrix

Explorer

• Sep 11, 2005

• #9

One thing to also make sure your players have, especially if they're facing a dragon with a CR even equal to their own is foreknowledge. Going in blind will kill them. Going in with full knowledge of it's weaknesses, etc. will give them at least a 1 or 2 CR advantage.

It would be interesting to have them research this specific dragon as well, interview someone who's party had run into it. Perhaps he gives some details upon some of the dragons specific combat tactics/habits, thus giving the party a hand up.

Also, white dragons are the stupidest of dragons. A mature one has only an Intelligence of 12.

They are cunning hunters, but not brilliant tacticians.

 

JustKim

First Post

• Sep 11, 2005

• #10

When you artificially jump levels players can sometimes be at a disadvantage. Playing through those levels the players would have learned each others' capabilities, developed tactics, and decided on spell lists. If the players are all very familiar with the rules and have anticipated reaching 10th, then I'd say they're capable of defeating a CR 12 dragon if you play it by the letter and don't introduce a lot of challenges like flyby attacks, metamagic breath, or spell/magic item use. There's also the question of how familiar you are with the rules. Dragons are complex creatures even when they're not very smart, and you'll have a lot to keep track of. If you think you might forget one of the dragon's abilities, like fear against an animal companion or DR against a Ranger's nonmagical offhand weapon, then the PCs are at an advantage. Then again, if you fudge something and let the dragon do something it shouldn't be able to do, it could be devastating to the party.

I've run combats like this before, and the party always comes out on top, but then I have a larger group of 5-7.