Wielding a Spiked Chain - for the first time.

I just want to check if I got the rules right:
(I´ve Exotic Weapon Profiency - Spiked Chain, Improved Trip and Combat Expertise. Is Combat Reflexes an option with Dex 12?)

1. Does the +4 bonus to the Strength check apply when using a weapon, or is it just when you are fighting unarmed? It seems that the rules make a distiction between unarmed attacks and tripping and tripping with a weapon. The +4 bonus isn´t mentioned on page 159 in the Players Handbook under "Tripping with a Weapon"

2. If I try to to trip an opponent and succeeds -do I roll for damage when making a successful trip AND then follow up with an attack ( like the example with Tordek on page 96) rolling for additional damage?

3. If the opponent wins the opposed check I can drop my weapon instead of being tripped ( page 159). What happens next round if I drop my Chain - can I pick it up - if it´s there of course - and drawing an AOO picking up an object? Sounds risky! How do you as players and dm:s resolve this when fighting? Do you switch to an another weapon?

I would be glad for any advice how to play a Spiked Chain wielder in combat - good moves, things to think about, etc.


Asmo

1. The +4 bonus on your Strength check applies. From the feat, "You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent."

2. No. A successful trip attempt does not do any damage, it merely knocks your target over. However, following your trip attempt, you get to make a single melee attack against your foe - who is prone, and therefore has a -4 penalty to AC.

3. From the SRD:

SRD said:

Tripping with a Weapon: Some weapons can be used to make trip attacks. In this case, you make a melee touch attack with the weapon instead of an unarmed melee touch attack, and you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity.
If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the weapon to avoid being tripped.

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Keep in mind that being countertripped takes two failed rolls - you must first fail to trip your opponent on your attempt, and then you must lose an additional Str or Dex check to be tripped yourself. Yes, you can drop your weapon and then, next round, pick it up. Another alternative is to keep a back-up weapon on-hand, and consider investing in Quick Draw, just in case.

Combat Reflexes is absolutely a feat you should look into, given that you've got a reach weapon. The ability to take pre-emptive AoOs while you're flat-footed and your enemies are moving into striking range is key - especially if you trip them as they are approaching you. This generally ruins their entire round's worth of actions. Consider picking up some Gloves of Dexterity, as well, to help the number of AoOs you can make.

Is Combat Reflexes an option with Dex 12?

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Combat Reflexes is always an option, even with Dex 11 or less. It's just more useful the higher the Dex modifier. At Dex 12, not only can you take an AoO when flat-footed, but you get up to 2 AoO's per round.

1. It applies whenever you trip, regardless of whether you do it with a weapon or not.

2. If you trip an opponent, you do not deal damage. You would only deal damage in the follow up attack. The benefit of tripping is two-fold. Now that your opponent is prone, the follow-up attack to deal damage is easier. And, having your opponent prone prior to their action is very beneficial for the obvious reasons.

3. You don't have to drop the weapon to keep from being tripped. You can win the counter-trip attempt. Assuming you have a good chance, you might choose this option because you might consider it unlikely to fail two such opposed checks in a row. But, yes, if you pick up your chain you'd provoke an AoO. Such is the risk inherent in tripping and why the follow-up attack is not as powerful as people generally make it out to be in the beginning. As a player, you have numerous options, and sucking up the AoO is one of them. Don't drop your weapon is another, perhaps picking up Prone Attack as a feat.

Edit: 4 minutes late and a dollar short. To Patryn:

Combat Expertise is indeed a must, especially in conjunction with dexterity boosted up to 14 or 16 via magic. Remember, you can make a trip attack (and then follow up with a regular attack if you trip them!) with your AoO!

To maximize damage, you want str 14 or 18. This gives +3 or +6 damage respectively, as the chain is a two-handed weapon. You might also want to look into Power Attack. Spiked Chains are two handed weapons, which means that you can trade to-hit bonuses for damage on a 1 to 2 basis (-2 to hit for +4 damage, for example).

If you have enough feats, investing in Dodge-->Mobility-->Spring Attack-->Whirlwind Attack can be interesting with a reach weapon like the chain. You proably need to be a fighter to make this work due to the number of feats required.

Have your local wizard cast Enlarge Person on you, as often as possible. You should also have a potion or three of it in your back pocket so you can take care of yourself if necessary. Then you will control a huge area of the battlefield.

Spiked Chain wielders are often defensive in nature. Other weapons (greatsword for example) have superior damage potential, but the chain is awesome for controlling the battlefield. You can prevent enemies from moving through a huge area and be a good wall for your weaker party members, especially if enlarged.

*edited typo

nittanytbone said:

To maximize damage, you want str 14 or 16. This gives +3 or +5 damage respectively, as the chain is a two-handed weapon. You might also want to look into Power Attack. Spiked Chains are two handed weapons, which means that you can trade to-hit bonuses for damage on a 1 to 2 basis (-2 to hit for +4 damage, for example).

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There, I fixed it for you

A spiked gauntlet or the Improved Unarmed Strike feat are useful backup weapons that saves you taking the time to draw a weapon. This has more application as you BAB reaches 6+ because of the additional attacks available in a full round action.

Also, for future development, you may wish to look into the Exotic Weapon Master PrC presented in Complete Warrior for some nice spiked chain abilities.

Elephant said:

There, I fixed it for you

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Er, no, you didn't.

14 Str gives +3 with a two-handed weapon (+2 x 1.5); you both got that right.

16 Str gives +4 with a two-handed weapon (+3 x 1.5, rounded down); you both got that wrong, with different answers

-Hyp.

Wasn't there a version somewhere of the spiked chain that was a double weapon or reach weapon? I found one in Oriental Adventures (the Chain), but I thought there was a different one. (I used that to make a fun little NPC gnome with a +1 Flaming/+1 Frost Chain with combat reflexes and Hold the Line)

By the way, Hold the Line is a great feat with the spiked (or other) chain.

As far as I know, whirlwind attack is limited to opponents within 5 feet, so although it can be used with a spiked chain, most other weapons (big 2 handers for example) are better.

A good feat wiht improved trip, is knockdown

When you do 10 points or more damage, knockdown entitles you to a free trip attempt, and if you succed, improved trip allows a follow up attack, combine this with a reach weapon and combat reflexes, and you can soon find yourself surrounded by prone opponents, who then have to get back up in thier round while you not only still threaten them, but also have the ability to re-trip them

Consider specialising to, as someone stated, strength 16, gives you +3 damage, specialise will give you another +2, and you roll 2d4, so minimum damage will be 7, max damage will be 13, get some bracers of ogre power (str 18 = +6 on a 2 hander) it becomes 10-17 damage, meaning a free trip attempt eveyr hit

A weapon chain is a lovely weapon, and get 2 people in a party wiht them, and it rocks

Feegle Out

Nac_Mac_Feegle said:

As far as I know, whirlwind attack is limited to opponents within 5 feet, so although it can be used with a spiked chain, most other weapons (big 2 handers for example) are better.

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Please at least make an attempt to read a feat before complaining that it doesn't work.

WHIRLWIND ATTACK [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit: When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.

When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.

Special: A fighter may select Whirlwind Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

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