3rd Edition Rules, 2nd Edition Feel?

There seems to be a fairly big movement to try to get that 1st edition feel with gaming. Necromancer Games' "3rd edition rules, 1st edition feel", Castles and Crusades, and the Dungeon Crawl Classics are but a few examples of this.

But what about 3rd edition edition products with 2nd edition feel? To my knowledge, the main one out there is Sword and Sorcery's Advanced Player's Guide. What other 3e products have the 2nd edition feel?

What do you define second edition feel as? I think that defintion really needs to be stated first.

I remember being struck by the 2e-style logo on that book, but never quite had the inclination to pick it up. In what ways did it capture a 2e feel (other than the cover)?

Crothian said:

What do you define second edition feel as? I think that defintion really needs to be stated first.

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Good point. Just throwing a few random thoughts out here, off the top of my head (and these are meant to be value-judgment free observations):
DM judgement can compensate for unbalanced mechanics (and is supposed to).
Unbalanced mechanics are OK, so long as your DM is on the ball and the players are having fun.
In fact, anything goes, so long as the DM is on the ball and the players are having fun.
Characterisation and roleplaying are rewarded as much as anything else.
Supplements for everything - this started with 2e, imho.

Hmmm. These aren't necessarily confined to 2e, but there was a certain freewheeling element to that rules-set that wasn't found in 1e or the more rules-oriented 3e. In fact, BECM feels more like 2e to me than any of the other editions - dunno why.

There is some bias against 2e here and there and it certainly had its faults (mainly introduced through the plethora of supplements, I would say). But I had lots of fun with it, nevertheless, and played it throughout its run. I found the changeover from 1e to 2e relatively painless, for the most part (although the guy playing the ranger in my group at the time was less than happy, heh heh...)

If you define '1st/2nd edition feel' as applies to great settings like Planescape and Ravenloft, there's lots of companies like Necromancer and Green Ronin putting out excellent product. If you're talking the hideous pain of 1st/2nd ed rules, like getting repeatedly smacked with a flaming board studded with nails, I know of none off the top of my head...

Well, if homage to 2e trade dress is a big element (that seems to be the big 2e element of the Advanced Player's Guide), try:

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=4430&
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=287&products_id=4866&
http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=287&products_id=5266&

Beyond Countless Doorways, maybe?

It could be argued that with 2e having such a proliferation of settings, any new setting released has a bit of "Second Edition Feel."

BCD has potential.

2nd edition was the era of adventurous settings like Dark Sun, Planescape, and Ravenloft, so perhaps you could count the likes of Iron Kingdoms, Oathbound, and, er, Ravenloft as "2e feel."

Crothian said:

What do you define second edition feel as? I think that defintion really needs to be stated first.

Click to expand...

I think everyone else beat me to it!

The only other thing I would add would be the layout style, which is why the Advanced Player's Guide came to mind. Logo looks awfully familiar. Some of their alternate rules for epic progression seemed to fit the old 2e style too.

*shrugs*

I must admit that I felt far less constrained by the game mechanics back in 2nd edition. Now I feel like if it's not in the rulebooks, I shouldn't do it; or alternately, if I want to do it I need to find a spell/feat/template/etc. combo that works, rather than handwaving something as magic and getting on with a rousing tale. I never used to worry about "wealth levels" or "balance" in 2E either, but now these things are constantly on my mind when I'm working on my campaigns, and worse, my players expect them, complaining when there's a perceived imbalance or lack of treasure. I never had to deal with those kinds of expectations in 2E either. It was all about the story.

I want to get back to it being all about the story.

I think that the promise of 2nd edition was never fully achieved, as the game went in a different direction once the "Complete" handbooks started to come out. I remember being very happy with the initial release of the 2nd edition PHB and DMG, but not as keen on the loose-leaf binder approach (and the urds! where did they come from?).

I think 2nd edition was shooting for this idea of strengthening the "four core classes" approach that was already partially an element of 1st edition (with subclasses): Warrior, Wizard, Rogue, and Priest. The idea that all classes fit into those 4 overarching groups was nice, and it's reminiscent now of what EverQuest II has done (4 basic archetypal classes) and somewhat like True20 (expert, warrior, adept). Kits evolved as a means of further defining and narrowing the classes that existed under the basic 4, but they rapidly lost control of that and I think that's one area where 2nd edition started to tank for me.

You'd never get me back to playing 2nd edition AD&D, but I can see elements in the early design stages and initial releases that I strongly appreciated back then. The later stuff? Not so much.

Cheers,
Cam