What if... D&D had been designed BEFORE The Lord of the Rings!

What if Dungeons & Dragons had been designed before Tolkien's The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings were published?

This would take place in an alternate 1936 with a full-grown Gygax (or a being of very similar bent) and compatriots.

Referencing Appendix N: Inspirational and Educational Reading in the Dungeon Master's Guide and taking into account the detailed Inspirational Source Material in the Moldvay Basic Rulebook, how would the Dungeons & Dragons game have developed without a modern fantasy influence?

Edgar Rice Burroughs and H.P. Lovecraft could still exist as an influential force, along with the pulps, early comic books and fantastic cinema.

Assume that this alternate Dungeons & Dragons game also had its roots in medieval miniature wargaming. Would there still be enough "pop culture" fantasy to drive it as a fantasy adventure game, or would it have morphed into a game based in a speculative, weird modern setting?

There are a LOT of critters that had no basis in modern fantasy.

There would still be dragons, demons, devils, angels, and fey.

There would still be minotaurs, gorgons, and hydras.

And of course... there would still be flumphs.

Very interesting question.

Perhaps Robert E. Howard, author of the Conan tales, might have had even more influence as would E. R. Eddison, author of The Worm Ouroboros.

Maybe classical, especially Greek, mythology would have had an even bigger impact as more people studied classics back then.

Weird Tales and the like had lots of stuff very familiar to D&D players; I don't think it would be that different. Most of what Tolkien wrote about, he got from elsewhere -- dwarfs, rings of power and such from Der Ring Des Nibelungen et al., for instance.

The main thing that would change is probably the nonhuman races; D&D elves-as-a-player-race owe a lot to Tolkien (Sidhe etc. from folklore are a little too weird for most players), and halflings owe everything to the professor ("kender" and later changes notwithstanding -- they were later variations on Tolkien's theme). We would also probably not have the hordes of marching evil humanoids. Goblins and hobgoblins would be more fey and less "variations on orc" than they are now, and orcs would not be around at all as such.

Fighters, wizards, rogues, dragons, spells, all that would still be there.

-The Gneech

Orc was also old english for evil spirit.

IMO it would be a GOOD THING (tm) if elves were never player races.

interwyrm said:

Orc was also old english for evil spirit.

IMO it would be a GOOD THING (tm) if elves were never player races.

Click to expand...

YEAH NO ELFS!!!

Personally I think the game would look more like Pendrgon with players taking on the roles of the Medieval Court (Prince Valiant fighting dragons, evil fey scorceresses, and maraunding saxons) Possibly some groups might look at Classics to create an Argonauts type group.

Conan would be popular so a lot of Barbarians to add the 'exotic flavour'

Some elements would not exist as they are now. Halflings would not exist; treants would not, and likely there would be no swords glowing blue in the presence of orcs.

The other tropes would certainly exist, but possibly in slightly altered form; clerics, fighting men, magic-users, dwarves, still elves, but the game I think would have been largely unchanged up through the late 1970's.

The biggest changes perhaps would be in the intervening years; the game influences would be more focused on Conanesque or Leiberesque tales; perhaps the game's popularity might have never really left the wargaming circles of the 70's and 80's.

Keep in mind the biggest heirs of Tolkien:

--the Dragonlance Chronicles
--The Forgotten Realms (yes, inspired by Conan, but there is much Tolkien in the Realms as they developed)
--Peirs Anthony
--Zelazny
--Robert Jordan
--most Romantic Fantasy
--even the Chronicles of Narnia might not exist had Tolkien not existed. After all, C.S. Lewis' interest in fantasy and his conversion to Christianity were either made possible by or heavily influenced by Tolkien.

With no Tolkien comes no trends of Romantic Fantasy to dominance in the 1980's. Therefore, Greyhawk as envisioned by Gary and friends remains the primary focus. Where this takes the hobby's popularity I really cannot say. (Some folks may the wistful, though. ) However, it wouldn't be the hobby I grew up in, and may not have enjoyed past my teenage years.

Nevermind.

You still have all that oulp stuff that D&D was based on, Tarzan, John Carter of Mars, etc from Edgar Rice Burroughs, plus Robert and a lots of others.

I think you'd have a much more historically-based meme; either King Arthur-ish or fantasy based more on classic myth than we have now. Greek, Roman, and Egyptian tropes would dominate. Dark Ages Europe might be a popular supplement. And a Robin Hood-type setting.

There might well be elves, but they'd be something either to be feared and fought, or some kind of spirit creature. Dunsany would be a major source of 'fantasy' for the game.

The game itself might be more like Pendragon, where you're more concerned with realm management and such than with actual individual personalities. I'm uncertain of just how far it would stray from it's wargaming roots at first.