Monk - what do you like and dislike?

Quick question for you all concerning D&D 3.5.

What do you like, and dislike about the Monk?

Be as specific or non specific as you like.

~Le

I like many of the abilities - I think they're cool and reasonably interesting.

I dislike the fact that Monks are in the core rules at all, not in Oriental Adventures, where (in my opinion) they belong, right alongside Samurai, Ninja, Shugenja, Sohei, etc.

I dislike the implied Shaolin Martial Artist flavor, that don't fit in most settings that want to look like European medieval fantasy. At least, Monte Cook, in Arcana Evolved, made a version (the Oathsworn) that reminds of the Haruchai Bloodguards from Thomas Covenant chronicles, and thus fits more easily in non-oriental settings.

From a mechanical POV: I dislike the d8 hit points, but can live with them (similar to the Ranger or Scout, a fighter-type that is not a frontliner) but really dislike the lack of full BAB progression. Since the main ability of the Monk is Flurry, which imposes a penalty, and since Monks' STR is generally fairly low (due to MAD), they miss more than they hit. :\

TheLe said:

Quick question for you all concerning D&D 3.5.

What do you like, and dislike about the Monk?

Be as specific or non specific as you like.

~Le

Click to expand...

Lots of things to dislike.

In no particular order:

Stealing of a niche. In DnD, the only way (in the core rules, and every splat I've seen) to be a good martial artist is to be a monk. So you get lots of martial artist-wannabes that don't agree with the monk flavor but go with the monk because "they have to". Making matters worse, the niche goes along with the light fighter, something WotC is terrible at designing, and even the monk (as a light fighter) isn't that well designed, but is one of the few core options that don't completely suck at it, especially from first level.

Low attack bonus. The combination of overly-expensive amulets of mighty fists and low BAB means your monk will have a low attack bonus. This isn't all that good, and worse if you really wanted to be a martial artist. Every monk I've seen in combat has been weak, as a result, regardless of build or tactics.

Too much damage. Someone ironic, but the base damage of the monk is very high, and is also abuseable with magic or non-humanoid monsters. This scares DMs who might propose cheaper amulets of mighty fists and other such options.

Flavor. Any class that has a lot of flavor is also going to have a lot of bad flavor for some people. Lots of people don't like the abilities of the monk - it could be simple dislike, or they may feel the abilities are too magical, or they may feel the abilities are too weak, or detract from combat ability (especially if they really wanted to play a martial artist). Then there's the lawful alignment requirement, which we all know is an integral part of learning karate [/sarcasm], ticking off some players even more.

Solutions: because of DnD's high magic light-fighter-screwing mechanics, it might not be possible to fix the monk class. It might be possible to create a martial artist class, however, to free some people from taking a class they don't like large parts of.

Like: its a reasonably neat class, with some interestng abilities.

Dislike:
1) it's niche is odd in a standard D&D party. It's not really a stand up fighter. More, at low levels, it's a "light pursuit fighter", and at high level it zeroes in on "magic slayer."
2) Too fixated on the shaolin monk archetype. I would prefer a more generic martial artist.
3) Would prefer its martial arts flavor to be more customizable.
4) HATE the multiclass restriction. It's stupid. Lose it.

Psion said:

3) Would prefer its martial arts flavor to be more customizable.
4) HATE the multiclass restriction. It's stupid. Lose it.

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Oh, and these too. I knew I forgot something.

Geez. This is really fascinating.

Don't forget that I also asked "What do you like about the monk?"

~Le

Overall, the monk feels weak. Mediocre BAB, low AC, MAD, etc. The abilities take a long time to mesh together well.

The fluff of the monk is at odds with many worlds. If it was divested of the Lawful requirement, and allowed any alignment and free multiclass restrictions, it could be worked in easier. Change the weapons and skill list a bit, and you could have a more generalized brawler with improvised attacks. One of my player used the base monk class as a "wild man" that was raised in the woods. You'd be surprised how natural it felt. Jumping out of trees and not getting hurt, having an intuitive sense to dodge, using his teeth and body to attack, not being hurt by venomous creatures etc.

Do you ever wonder if WotC pays attention to threads like this? Maybe that's what resulted in the D20 Modern Martial Artist (very cool design), but that could have been a happy accident.

TheLe said:

Don't forget that I also asked "What do you like about the monk?"

Click to expand...

I'd be more positive - but I can't!