The status of the Cooperative Dungeon Project?

Is there any new dungeons looming on the horizon?

Asmo

I'll check in with Trainz and see what he might have in mind.

If I recall correctly, the next was going to have a different format or flavor. Something about outdoor locations or multi-level dungeons.

While waiting for a sign from Mark or Trainz I guess I could link to what they´ve come up with so far:

http://www.creativemountaingames.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1

I´m currently running a group of 5 players through "Tomb of Chaos" and they seem to like it -so far

Asmo

I vote we use something other than Trainz's software. Let's face it - these dungeons have been little more than advertisements for his software.

A more natural-looking dungeon would be far more interesting to work with.

der_kluge said:

I vote we . . .

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It's not up for a vote. This whole line was first conceived by Trainz. For each hour put in by an individual contributor on any given Cooperative Dungeon project, dozens of hours have been put in by Trainz (and myself and the core editing/proofing team) behind the scenes . . . on each Cooperative Dungeon project. It's up to Trainz to decide what form a Cooperative Dungeon project will take based on whatever input he chooses to consider until he says otherwise. If you have suggestions for Trainz, please make them tactfully, but please don't highjack his brainchild by calling for a general vote. It's not your place, it's disrespectful to Trainz, and he deserves better than that.

Asmo said:

While waiting for a sign from Mark or Trainz I guess I could link to what they´ve come up with so far:

http://www.creativemountaingames.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=1

I´m currently running a group of 5 players through "Tomb of Chaos" and they seem to like it -so far

Asmo

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Thanks for the link and the kind words about Tomb of Chaos. Sorry to keep you hanging. I've exchanged some emails with Trainz and he'll hopefully post here when he gets the chance. He's been quite busy elsewise, so it might take a bit of time.

Wycen said:

If I recall correctly, the next was going to have a different format or flavor. Something about outdoor locations or multi-level dungeons.

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Trainz was talking about doing something a bit different, though I do not recall if anything was definitely decided. Hopefully, we'll work this out soon. I'm anxious to get a new one underway, too.

Mark CMG said:

It's not up for a vote. This whole line was first conceived by Trainz. For each hour put in by an individual contributor on any given Cooperative Dungeon project, dozens of hours have been put in by Trainz (and myself and the core editing/proofing team) behind the scenes . . . on each Cooperative Dungeon project. It's up to Trainz to decide what form a Cooperative Dungeon project will take based on whatever input he chooses to consider until he says otherwise. If you have suggestions for Trainz, please make them tactfully, but please don't highjack his brainchild by calling for a general vote. It's not your place, it's disrespectful to Trainz, and he deserves better than that.

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Whoa - timeout dude.

It's my understanding that the very first such dungeon materialized as the brainchild of Trainz, put together using his software, and sort of took off from there. You were brought on board once it was completed once the suggestion was made to publish it in some form.

You make it sound as if you had partnered up with Trainz at the very beginning and had plans to release multiple modules through a contract that you and he had agreed upon.

It's way more informal than that.

I'm fairly certain Trainz doesn't own the copyright on "Cooperative dungeon" and there's nothing stopping me from starting a brand new thread called "Cooperative Dungeon" with my own map, and my own rules.

Trainz is aware of what I think of his maps. No secret there. He has no desire to change, and why should he?

der_kluge said:

It's my understanding (. . .)

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You haven't really been in the loop. Tons more happens off-board, since just about the very start of the first CD, when I contacted him to give some suggestions on how to make it OGL compliant. The IP of CD adventures belongs to Trainz to do with as he pleases and he allowed me to publish the polished format of each. Whether it exists as a (unregistered) trademark or simply as his copyright is something you might want to ask him. The copyright of the polished/published documents/adventures, as a whole, belong to myself as CMG, and the legalese of that (beyond the OGL and OGC material) breaks down fairly simply as -

From CD 02 (as an example) said:

This document is copyright Mark Alexander Clover of Creative Mountain Games 2004. It is intended for personal use and may not be redistributed or reproduced without express written consent of Mark Alexander Clover of Creative Mountain Games. With the exception of Open Game Content (which can be used as described above), the individual contributions within this document are copyright (in their original form) of the respective contributors, as are their own names, and are used with permission of the contributor coordinator, Rene Mongrain.
Their names accompany their contributions and they can be contacted through Rene Mongrain.

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And, yes, we have an agreement that I would publish his Cooperative Dungeon projects (and work on them with him) for just as long as it suits the both of us for that to happen. It was my suggestion that the individual contributions remain the copyright of the contributors and only be CMG's to publish by permission, through the coordinator (Trainz). He agreed this seemed the most fair way to deal with each contributor, and until now it's never seemed to be a problem. He's a great guy and I certainly wouldn't dream of doing one without him, unless he gave the okay to do so because he wished to step down.

As to where you've come up with your own idea of how this all has worked, I do not know, but it might be a good idea to check the legal section of the published work or ask first before assuming next time. Each CD has a legal section that makes it as clear as can be and as fair as we thought we could make it. It's only been made as formal as it needs to be to protect those involved in the projects, including the individual contributors.

(Understand, for obvious reasons, I will not be debating any of the legal aspects of this on message boards with you, or anyone, but you, or anyone, can contact me with any legal concerns and they will be handled appropriately by myself or legal counsel if necessary.)

As to your approach in this thread, well, you've already gotten my feedback on that score.