Arcane Thesis Abuse (PHB II)

Glyfair

Explorer
I was looking at this feat today. Among other things it allows you to choose a single spell and "when you apply a metamagic feat to that spell, the enhanced spell uses up a slot one level lower than normal."

OK, what happens if you apply a metamagic feat to it that doesn't increase the level of the spell, by the RAW. Say you apply "Eschew Materials" to Fireball, does that mean it only takes up a 2nd level slot?
 

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There's no such animal, AFAIK. Eschew Material isn't a metamagic feat, and I don't know of any actual metamagic feat that doesn't raise the spell's slot level.
 

Eschew Materials is not a metamagic feat.

But to answer the spirit of your question, I would not allow the ability to reduce a spell below its normal level. The ability is clearly intended to make metamagic feats cheaper, not to make the actual spell any easier to cast.
 


First, Eschew Materials isn't a metamagic feat. Second, even if you did allow it for metamagic feats that don't require a higher level, it's not all that unbalancing. You still can't learn the spell until you've hit the appropriate level. That is assuming that the full text of the feat doesn't explicitly cover that contingency.
 

Mouseferatu said:
Eschew Materials is not a metamagic feat.
Hmmm..I must have been thinking of the 3.0 version (which was a metamagic feat).

But to answer the spirit of your question, I would not allow the ability to reduce a spell below its normal level. The ability is clearly intended to make metamagic feats cheaper, not to make the actual spell any easier to cast.
I wouldn't either (barring allowing it for a specific spell that I wouldn't have a problem being a level lower).
 

I"ve seen some things that reduced metamagic levels for spells (like Incantatrix PrC) but they all stated that it still had a minimum adjustment of +1 level.

Now, I don't have the PHB II yet so I just gotta ask... is there no minimum stated in the feat description?
 

Ditch said:
I"ve seen some things that reduced metamagic levels for spells (like Incantatrix PrC) but they all stated that it still had a minimum adjustment of +1 level.

Now, I don't have the PHB II yet so I just gotta ask... is there no minimum stated in the feat description?

Not the way it is worded...

Benefit: Choose one arcane spell that you can cast to be your thesis spell. When casting that spell, you do so at +2 caster level. When you apply a metamagic feat other than Heighten Spell to that spell, the enhanced spell uses up a spell slot one level lower than normal. For example, an empowered thesis spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual slot (rather than the normal two levels higher).

And Energy Substitution from Complete Arcane says

Benefit: Choose one energy type (acid, cold, electricity, or fire), You can then modify any spell with an energydescriptor to use the chosen type of energy instead. An energy substituted spell uses up a spell slot of the spell's normal level. The spell's descriptor changes the new energy type -- for example, fireball composed of cold energy is an evocation [cold] spell.
 


My necromancer just took the Energy Substitution feat about 30 seconds ago...right when I read this post. Oh, and Arcane Thesis.

Wow, thats not at all broken, is it?
 

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