Faster feats - keeping them from getting out of hand

I often feel feats are under-utilized and was thinking about jumping of board the bandwagon of those that give out feats more often. (In particular, I like the 1 feat per level you don't get an ability point).

My concern with these schemes isn't so much the weight of the feats themselves, but that by taking advantage of these extra feats, an abusive player would navigate to the top of feat chanis with lofty powers associated with later feats.

Has anyone using the "faster feats" variants instituted against stop-gaps to prevent this sort of thing? I was thinking either:
- Adding a limit on how many pre-requisites a feat has that you can take according to level, or
- Limiting a character to dedicating one-half of their feats in a single chain.

When house-ruling at all, there are feats every second level (i.e., at 1st, 3rd, 5th etc.).

I haven't really noticed any excessive powergaming resulting from it; I like it, the players like it, and there honestly seems to be no kinds of problem. After all, there's only a difference at all starting at 5th level (and a *very* minor difference at that stage), and even by 21st level, it's a difference of only 3 feats (8 vs. 11). So, not enough to 'break the game', including PrC requirements and the like. Even so, it's noticable, and allows for a bit more customisation via mechanics.

/sales pitch

What you may do is add some more requirements (level, BAB, save,...) so that the higher-tier feats wouldn't be available too quickly thanks to the increase in the number of feats given.

But frankly, I do not see it as a big problem given that some race/class combination can already give feats quickly enough to enable players to go up in those feat chains quite soon in their career (frex, the usual human lvl3 fighter with his 5 feats - level 1, human, fighter 1, fighter 2, level 3). Most core feat chains are already balanced with requirements that force characters to be at an advanced level to benefit from the hgiher levels. You'd just have to keen an eye out for unbalanced feat chains coming from other books, but then that's par for the course when dealing with non-core source material.

Just about the only real advantage to being a fighter is the bonus feats. Doesn't giving out bonus feats to everyone dilute that advantage?

Ciaran said:

Just about the only real advantage to being a fighter is the bonus feats. Doesn't giving out bonus feats to everyone dilute that advantage?

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If you have PHB II - and all the new fighter feat goodness? no
before that? if you use Aus_snows version its only +3 feats more than standard.
Psions Version:
1,2,3,5,7,9,10,11,13,14,15,17,18,19 = 14 feats vs 7
yeah this seems like it would dilute the advantage of a fighter. (+11 bonus feats)

If the game tops out at 11th level:
Aus +2 feats
Psion +4 feats
Fighter +6 bonus feats
not too bad.

Evilhalfling said:

If you have PHB II - and all the new fighter feat goodness?

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Part of the inspiration for this move is the wealth of resources with really cool feats that never get touched. There are great feats not only in PHB II, but for my money, the 101 feat collection, Dragon Compendium Vol I, and Years Best d20 2004.

As for fighters having a diluted advantage: consider that in my current game, a fighter is major dominating, I am not particularly concerned with that ATM.

I've used the "one feat every odd level" in place of the regular 1/3. However, that is not really a huge change IMO, since over 20 levels characters only get 3 more feats than normal.

You should also keep in mind how far you want the game to go with levels. We never play as far as 20th, because it's harder for us (me at least) to prepare and run high-level games. But the farther you go, the bigger the difference obviously, and perhaps the more potential diminishing of Fighter bonus feats.

For your specific problem , the solution I find most attractive is also the most difficult for you: check which specific feats do you think should NOT be given too early, and add a BAB requirement (or something similar). I would not be surprised however if these feats were but a few only... well-designed feats have a BAB or CL requirement when they really aren't supposed to be taken too early in levels (e.g. item creation feats, weapon focus/spec chain). You may end up needing adding an extra req only to a few of them.

Trying to find a general house rule seems easier because then you can think it's going to work with all feats around, but there's always something that gets the shaft because of a general rule.

Andy Collins gives out a feat every level in his Umber campaign. The caveat is that every third level, the feat must come from a list of racial feats. I think it's an interesting option for keeping players from racing for the most powerful feats and for adding flavor to the races and character.

I give out a feat every level. The players are now 14-15 level, so they have a lot of feats. I don't limit the feats they can take, and no one has yet abused anything. Well, the archer ranger guy has but it hasn't been bad. I do give monsters and NPCs extra feats so it balances out pretty fast.

I give out 2 feats at level 1, 2 at level 3, 2 at level 6, 2 at level 9 etc.
It works out pretty well, it does lead to players getting alot at some levels and nothing at others so I'm thinking of causing the extra feat to be gained a level earlier or later.