Adjucating Summon Spells

Ravellion · May 29, 2006

Hello friendly people,

I just had a session in which a Conjurer summoned a Large celestial bison next to an enemy spellcaster in round 1. So far, so good. However, he then proceeded to grapple the spellcaster. This made the spellcaster all but useless. The allies of the spellcaster would have to take quite some time to kill this nearly 50hp bison, and by doing so completely ignore the rest of the party, which means pretty much a very easy EL 7 encounter, all for one 3rd level summon from a 5th level wizard.

Now I am wondering whether I am allowing my players' summons to be played with way too much intelligence. The wizard in question does speak celestial, but I am wondering whether such creatures have the intelligence and subservience to follow such instructionsby the wizard to the letter.

In this same party is also a druid. Should summon nature's ally spells be even more restricted because the creatures can't be conversed with?

edit: Shoot. This should have probably been in the Rules forum.

Rav

Thanee · May 29, 2006

Summoned creatures will surely not use attacks they would not normally use, unless specifically told so (the summoner must be able to communicate with the creature, but celestial creatures are intelligent enough to understand language (usually Celestial, though some also use Common as their standard language, which they can understand (but not speak))).

If the spellcaster had no weapon in hand (AoO, if damage is dealt the grapple attempt is automatically foiled), and no Protection from Evil running, he's probably out of luck there. Grapple is nasty against most spellcasters.

Bye
Thanee

MarkB · May 29, 2006

One thing to note is that you can't summon anything in round 1. Summoning spells have a casting time of 1 round, which means the caster begins casting at the start of his action, and the creature appears just before his initiative in the next round.

However, I would certainly say that a summoned creature can grapple if ordered to do so, and as for subservience, summoned creatures obey the caster completely.

Ravellion · May 29, 2006

Thanee said:
If the spellcaster had no weapon in hand (AoO, if damage is dealt the grapple attempt is automatically foiled), and no Protection from Evil running, he's probably out of luck there. Grapple is nasty against most spellcasters.

It was a druid, so no protection from evil/good. And the AoO missed, yes.

(edit: well, the Druid did get one flamestrike off, so the first round he did do something useful. In round 2 it was all over though - one Bison and bye bye.)

Rav

Thanee · May 29, 2006

Druid in Grapple -> Wildshape

He got a Flamestrike off *while* the conjurer was summoning?

Didn't he catch the spellcaster in the area? That would have been at least some difficult Concentration check.

Bye
Thanee

hong · May 29, 2006

How on earth does a bison grapple, anyway?

Aust Diamondew · May 29, 2006

hong said:
How on earth does a bison grapple, anyway?

It rolls over. Doesn't need to do much else when it weighs 10 times as much as you do.

Someone · May 29, 2006

hong said:
How on earth does a bison grapple, anyway?

The same way as horses

Hypersmurf · May 29, 2006

Thanee said:
Summoned creatures will surely not use attacks they would not normally use, unless specifically told so (the summoner must be able to communicate with the creature, but celestial creatures are intelligent enough to understand language (usually Celestial, though some also use Common as their standard language, which they can understand (but not speak))).

For all the Celestial and Fiendish animals on the Summon Monster lists, it will be Common; they all have an Int of 3, and none of their entries mention any other language, so per the rules for Intelligence, they understand Common.

-Hyp.

Ravellion · May 29, 2006

Thanee said:
Druid in Grapple -> Wildshape

He got a Flamestrike off *while* the conjurer was summoning?

Didn't he catch the spellcaster in the area? That would have been at least some difficult Concentration check.

He did catch the PC druid in the flamestrike. That was one Summon Nature's Ally 3 gone by failed concentration check. The wizard however, managed to stand far enough away.

I'm not really ticked off about this singel encounter having gone awry (far too easy for a climax), but with both the PC Druid and animal companion, a PC Conjurer, a rogue and a fighter/monk, this party is hard to DM exciting combats for. They all either don't get into combat themselves, or can easily get out of it if they wish. Only the monk so far has been dropped a few times.

Rav

Adjucating Summon Spells

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