Open locks, take 10 or 20?

Oryan77 · Jun 6, 2006

I can't seem to find this answer in the books. Can you take 10 or 20 when using the open lock skill?

I know if there is no danger, you can take 10. But what if there is a trap within the locked chest? If I say they can't take 10, then they'll know there is danger. So does this answer my question, you can't take 10 or 20 with the open lock skill?

Mark Chance · Jun 6, 2006

Oryan77 said:
I can't seem to find this answer in the books. Can you take 10 or 20 when using the open lock skill?

Yes to both.

hafrogman · Jun 6, 2006

You can take ten, the regard here is not neccesarily danger, but rather time and concentration. You can't do it with an orc swinging at you, but the trap doesn't matter. If 10+skill doesn't set it off, they're safe.

You can take 20, but this assumes you try everything. If there is a trap that they did not find, I'd say taking 20 sets it off.

RigaMortus2 · Jun 6, 2006

hafrogman said:
You can take ten, the regard here is not neccesarily danger, but rather time and concentration. You can't do it with an orc swinging at you, but the trap doesn't matter. If 10+skill doesn't set it off, they're safe.

You can take 20, but this assumes you try everything. If there is a trap that they did not find, I'd say taking 20 sets it off.

I agree

Oryan77 · Jun 6, 2006

hafrogman said:
You can take ten, the regard here is not neccesarily danger, but rather time and concentration. You can't do it with an orc swinging at you, but the trap doesn't matter. If 10+skill doesn't set it off, they're safe.

You can take 20, but this assumes you try everything. If there is a trap that they did not find, I'd say taking 20 sets it off.

Ah great, thanks. Don't you hate it when the answer is so simple that you overlook it or over analyze it? Of course the trap isn't putting them in danger...it can't until it's set off

Thanks again!

majustismp15 · Jun 6, 2006

IIRC, taking 20 means you accept the results of a 1-20 in order. so really if a PC takes 20 they roll a 1 for results of openlock. If a roll of 1 would set it off then, yeah, let 'em do it (they'll learn eventually to take 20 on searches first

)

Jack Simth · Jun 6, 2006

majustismp15 said:
IIRC, taking 20 means you accept the results of a 1-20 in order. so really if a PC takes 20 they roll a 1 for results of openlock. If a roll of 1 would set it off then, yeah, let 'em do it (they'll learn eventually to take 20 on searches first )

Well..... it's an extremely common house rule that it does so, but it doesn't state that it does anywhere (that I'm aware of, at least). You can't take 20 when there's a consequence for failure (e.g., the Disable Device by 5 or more making you *think* it worked, the 1,000 foot plummet when Climbing The World's Tallest Cliff, the "ruined materials" aspect of Craft, et cetera) anyway, so it normally won't matter, though. There's no note under Open Lock that there's a consequence for failure, so unless there's an orc swinging a sword over your head or some such, go for it.

Infiniti2000 · Jun 6, 2006

Oryan77 said:
I can't seem to find this answer in the books. Can you take 10 or 20 when using the open lock skill?

Note the following line in the Taking 20 section:

SRD said:
Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search.

Hypersmurf · Jun 6, 2006

Jack Simth said:
Well..... it's an extremely common house rule that it does so, but it doesn't state that it does anywhere (that I'm aware of, at least).

Indeed, if anything, you roll a -- 19 times, followed by a 20.

Even in the odd case where someone could succeed on a roll of 1, but elects to Take 20, "Taking 20... assumes that you fail many times before succeeding", and takes 20 times as long as performing the skill once would normally take.

If the action were represented by rolling 1-20 in order, you would succeed immediately, since the first roll (the 1) would succeed. However, you fail repeatedly, so we can see that the failing attempts do not represent rolling a 'virtual 1'.

-Hyp.

MarkB · Jun 6, 2006

Personally, I wouldn't set a trap to trigger on a failed Open Lock check. If the trap's there, then either doing anything at all to the lock triggers it, unless you've first pressed the special catch that disables it - or else, nothing you do to the lock triggers it, and it triggers when the item is opened.

Since the Open Lock skill doesn't have a penalty for failure, the simplest way to avoid inconsistencies is not to introduce such a penalty.

Open locks, take 10 or 20?

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