Whirling Blade: Area effect or just Effect?

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator

Staff member

Supporter

• Jul 30, 2006

• #1

I'm starting this thread to stop hijacking this one:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2978795#post2978795

In another thread (http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=168811), I asked about whether Sculpt Spell would work with Whirling Blade. Hypersmurf agreed with my (unexpressed) suspicion, asserting that the spell would work with Sculpt Spell.

As others have pointed out, though, Whirling Blade has "Effect: 60' Line" (at least in the Spell Compendium- I don't know if it differs in Complete Arcane), as opposed to spells like Lightning Bolt which has "Area: 120' Line," so RAW, it shouldn't work.

However, I can't find another spell that has "Effect: Line" instead of "Area: Line" (several of my books are on loan), leading me to believe that "Effect" is a typo that should read "Area." IMHO, an "Effect: Line" spell would be called a "Ray."

Opinions or evidence to the contrary? Errata to support?

 

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shilsen

Adventurer

• Jul 30, 2006

• #2

It is "Effect: 60-ft. line" in Complete Arcane and I don't think it's a typo. I think it's intentional, because Whirling Blade does things ray spells don't (attacks against multiple targets in a line, for one) and it's not an area spell. And I definitely don't think it shoulw work with Sculpt Spell, either by RAW or by intent.

 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...

• Jul 30, 2006

• #3

shilsen said:

It is "Effect: 60-ft. line" in Complete Arcane...

Click to expand...

... huh.

I remember checking when the question was first asked, seeing "60-ft line", and thinking "Area spell, no problem."

Bizarre.

I'll need to reread the spell text, but it sounds more like an area spell than an effect spell, from the description.

-Hyp.

 

Thanee

First Post

• Jul 30, 2006

• #4

What shilsen said.

Bye
Thanee

 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator

Staff member

Supporter

• Jul 31, 2006

• #5

Like I said, I'll concede that RAW, it shouldn't work...my problem is that I don't think the stat block is correct- in other words, with the actual design intent. I'd be willing to consider the possibility it was designed to be an effect rather than area spell if someone could point out at least one other linear effect spell that wasn't an area effect spell or ray. In other words, show me another spell that exists in this 3rd category.

While there are ray spells that target multiple opponents, they do so with multiple rays. I really don't think that Whirling Blade was supposed to be a Ray spell- basically, rays stop when they hit a target, they don't pass through the target to other targets downrange.

By way of contrast, the spell's result- namely, targeting multiple opponents in a line- is functionally identical to what the most archetypal AE: Line spell in the game (Lightning Bolt) does. The single difference between the 2 is one word in the stat block.

 

shilsen

Adventurer

• Jul 31, 2006

• #6

Thanee said:

What shilsen said.

Bye
Thanee

Click to expand...

*keels over*

 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator

Staff member

Supporter

• Jul 31, 2006

• #7

I was all prepared to post "I found one!" and concede the point when I read Gust of Wind, which is indeed an "Effect: Line" spell...

Unfortunately, I cannot- Gust has a duration of 1 round, whereas Whirling Blade, like Lightning Bolt, is instantaneous. A critter passing through the area in which Gust is in effect will be subject to it as long as it does so in the round following its successful manifestation. Not so with Whirling Blade.

Then I also noticed that Call Lightning- creating an area in which a multitude of linear bolts of lightning over time has a duration. "AHA!- Area effect spells that have a duration of greater than instantaneous are Effect spells!"- a theory dashed by Evard's Black Tentacles.

This may all be indicative of a greater problem- a lack of a clear design standard for defining Area vs. Effect spells, leading to inconsistencies. :\

 

shilsen

Adventurer

• Jul 31, 2006

• #8

Dannyalcatraz said:

This may all be indicative of a greater problem- a lack of a clear design standard for defining Area vs. Effect spells, leading to inconsistencies. :\

Click to expand...

I think that's most likely to be the case. That being said, having a few spells which don't fit the general parameters (like Whirling Blade) doesn't really bother me.

 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator

Staff member

Supporter

• Jul 31, 2006

• #9

I reread the descriptions of Effect and Area in the PHB last night- generally speaking, Effect spells "summon" things, whereas Area spells affect things within a space.

Once again, it would seem that not only does Whirling Blade read more like an Area spell, but Evard's Black Tentacles should be an Effect spell.

 

I

Ilium

First Post

• Jul 31, 2006

• #10

Whirling Blade is not an area spell simply because it doesn't affect everything in its area. It attacks each creature in the line, but doesn't do damage to, say, furniture. Whereas a lightning bolt is very hard on the upholstery.

Having said that, I would probably let Sculpt Spell work on it (which I believe was the beginningn of the discussion) just because it seems to make sense from both a design intent and in-game logic perspective.

Plus it's cool.