The Mage: Unlimited Spellcasting

Nyaricus

First Post
The Mage Class

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"I could do this all day long."

I have an idea for a class, with a twist. It's an arcanist class, one who wields arcane magic, and would replace both sorcerers and wizards, theoretically - althoug in truth this comes off as a combinatio of a sorcerer/warlock-type caster once you hear me out. I was at work some months ago, and (no pun(s) intended) 'divine' inspiration struck me: if a arcanist class were to have (potentially) unlimited spellcasting every day, there needs to be a power check in place; I'll be using

  • HD: d4
  • BAB: 1/2
  • Fort: Bad
  • Ref: Bad
  • Will: Good.
  • Skills: 2/level. Class skills are Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Know: Arcana, Know: The Planes, Profession, Spellcraft.
  • Alignment: Any

So, here's how it works: You know a certain (limited) number of spells; I was thinking of using the sorcerer spells known as a base. From here, re-adjust the 1st and 0 level spells to follow the linear method of spell aquisition which starts with 2nd level spells (compensating for 0 level spells, since they get known at a much faster rate). This balances things a bit better, since it's kinda overkill to multiclass into this class if it were kept the same as before - and these guys can theoretically fling spells all day long, right?

Spell Save DC is based on Charisma, (bonus) Spells Known is based on Intelligence - read on for more details....

The thing about this class is that it gets those permanent spells known, but here it also takes a note from the wizard: if a Mage has a high enough Intelligence on Table 1-1 (page 8) to get bonus spells/day, he can instead get a spellbook and learn new spells to cast. The limit is the number of bonus spells availiable. He must spend time every morning pouring over his spellbook to get these non-permanent spells into his spells known again; these aren't his spells, per se. If his spellbook gets lost, or damaged or for whatever reason he can't cast these spells (feeblemind, even) then he only gets his normal spells that day. There is no game-mechanic difference between the two sources of spells for the mage, other than the source thereof.

When you cast a spell for the first time, there is no Memorization Check; you remember it perfectly. After you cast the spell, you must roll a Con check (DC = 10 + Level of the Spell) to ensure you have it perfectly memorized. If it's a fail, the DC goes up by one, if it's a pass the DC stays the same.

When you cast a spell for the second (and so on) time, you must then roll a Memorization Check. DC = 10 + spell level + result of the Con check(s). If you pass, the spell is cast, if you fail the spell isn't. Regardless of the outcome, you must then again roll a Con check to ensure you can cast it perfectly. I am debating whether a failed cast should add a cumitive +1 to the DC or not.

[sblock=Example of using this system]
So say Marvin the Mage (level 1) has a 14 Int, 12 Cha, magic missile prepared, along with Grease from his spellbook (for his high spellcasting stat). He gets into combat with a goblin and casts magic missile. He rolls his Con check afterwards, gets a 12, which is a pass and the DC to cast magic missile next time is still 11 (10+ the level of the spell [1]), and is unadjusted from the base DC.

Say in a few rounds, after casting grease for free, Marvin casts magic missile again. He must make a Memorization Check of the DC 11, set by his Concentration check from before. He rolls a 16, which is a pass, and casts it no problem, dropping the goblin. He rolls a Con check to make sure he can still cast his spell perfectly, rolls a 17 this time and keeps the DC of 11.

But let's say he failed his Mem Check when he casts magic missile for the second time. The spell was "lost" for this round, and he rolls his Con check to see if the Mem DC changes. He rolls bad, an 8, and the DC is now 12. On his next turn, he rolls His Mem Check, gets a 13 (lucky him!) and casts the spell normally, dropping the goblin. He rolls a 10 on his Con check, which increases the DC by +1 again. He now must pass a DC 13 Mem check to cast this spell.[/sblock]

That's about all the ideas I have for this class now; I humbly submit this to EN World to get feedback on the mechanics of this and to see if anyhting could be done for (precarious, admittantly) balance of this class.

Not sure to include bonus feats as a wizard, either...
 
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There seem to be a large number of rolls that must be made and DCs that appear to change "sometimes".

Each spell at each casting has a chance of its DC changing. That will cause problems for "most" games. There will be confusion; "accidentally" forgetting to alter the DC, using the wrong spell's DC, etc.


Maybe some of the DC checks could be eliminated or combined.

I think the concept is good, and should be explored further, but I think that playtesting the system as written would reveal the issues above.
 

magic_gathering2001 said:
Can you explain the DCs more clearly, I don't get it.
What are they in the example, because its not what you showed at the top
Sure; I also tryed to clarify my first post a bit, but I'll gladly go through this again.

Okay, you have two level 1 spells, X and Y, prepared, one from your spell list and one from your spellbook.

There are two free (as in a free action) checks you make in your round - A Memorization Check made before you cast a spell and a Concentration Check made after you cast the spell.

The first time you cast a spell, you do not need to make a Memorization check - you have the spell perfectly memorized.

Then you cast the spell.

Once you have done so, you roll a Concentration check to ensure you can still cast the spell properly; if you fail this check, the DC for the Memorization check goes up by one, if you fail the Concentraition check it stays the same.

If you fail a Memorization check the DC is unchanged, but you cannot cast that spell this round. This doesn't allow you to cast another spell either; you've effectively lost a standard action (or however long the casting time is).

You also need 8 hours of rest (usually this means sleep, of course, but there are elves and all that...) every night, after which the CDs are reset to simply 10+ the spell level, as normal. If you do not get 8 hours of rest, then the DCs should not be reduced as much [I'm in a hurry and I forgot to work out this part of the system; I'll be back Sunday night to figured out a reasonable solution to this however].

That, in a nutshell, is how this system works.

Arnix said:
I think the concept is good, and should be explored further, but I think that playtesting the system as written would reveal the issues above.
Absolutly; this is just an idea I am flinging around, trying to get feedback for.

This is not a simple system, as the Vancian system is; this is complicated, admittantly. But Indeed when I thought it up way back when, I was intrigued myself with it and have tinkered with it slightly (such as adding in a spellbook) in order to get what I've presented yesterday.

As always, I'd love more feedback :)

Also, should Memorization possibly be a new skill to use in this system?
 

I like the goal of this system, which seems to be to increase the available spells per day, but I think it'd be too hard to keep track of the DC's, unless you're playing in a forum, but even then...
This is sort of like the 'overchannel' idea for sorcerers that's floating around, basically risking bodily damage every time you cast too many times. Have you seen that?

Maybe you should consider a system where you can cast spells up to your normal daily limit, and then the DCs to cast again are based on a fixed progression, like adding the spell level to the DC every time you want to cast another spell. That would cut down on the variableness and there'd be one less roll to make.

Also, it looks like you're trying to add prepared casting to a spontaneous casting class - appropriate because I've just posted a prestige class that adds spontaneous casting to a prepared class. Basically like a wizard with a little sorcerer in him. It's over here . Might wanna take a look.
 

So the DC check to see if you have a spell memmed is 10 + spell level.

So first level spell, DC 11. At first level, if I have a 14 Con and maxxed ranks, that's +6 to my check. Say I take Skill Focus [Concentration], which gives me +3 for a total of +9, meaning I only need a 1 to fail. Does that mean I can continuously cast my 1st level spells all day until I roll a 1? [heck, with that, a 1st level Wizard would have a 50% chance of passing the DC for a 9th level spell of 19, though he couldn't of course be able to CAST the spell...]

I guess that really would give this mage unlimited spellcasting.

This of course assumes I'm reading this correctly....

Of, and where'd you get the pic? Looks cool. I want to find a bigger version and more by that artist if you know the name.
 

Legends of Sorcery might be worth a look, as it's another variant on this same theme (among several others in published works and on the internet). RPGObjects' "Legends of ..." historical and myth-based sourcebooks, which also all more or less use that magic system, likewise rock on toast.

Regarding your variant in particular, I agree with Dog Moon about the DCs, expecially when taking into account Skill Focus, et al. But I'm curious to see where it goes, and it looks like it is potentially workable.

And yeah, nice (N)PC image.
 

raen said:
I like the goal of this system, which seems to be to increase the available spells per day, but I think it'd be too hard to keep track of the DC's, unless you're playing in a forum, but even then...
Actually, I was thinking about this, and you'd just need to edit a character sheet to add a few lines to it; although it is a mouthful to keep track of, admittantly. This isn't your daddy's Vancian system ;)

raen said:
This is sort of like the 'overchannel' idea for sorcerers that's floating around, basically risking bodily damage every time you cast too many times. Have you seen that?
Nope, by I'd love a link if you have one :)

raen said:
Maybe you should consider a system where you can cast spells up to your normal daily limit, and then the DCs to cast again are based on a fixed progression, like adding the spell level to the DC every time you want to cast another spell. That would cut down on the variableness and there'd be one less roll to make.
I don't want this to be an addition to the core system; indeed this was designed simply using d20 mechanics and not the "example" (if you will) system presented in the PHB.

raen said:
Also, it looks like you're trying to add prepared casting to a spontaneous casting class - appropriate because I've just posted a prestige class that adds spontaneous casting to a prepared class. Basically like a wizard with a little sorcerer in him. It's over here . Might wanna take a look.
I will, and thanks for the feedback here - it's always appreciated :) IMO, though, this is a bit of both, not an add-on to another - both a prepared and spontaneous caster.

Oh, and welcome to the boards :)

Dog Moon said:
So the DC check to see if you have a spell memmed is 10 + spell level.

So first level spell, DC 11. At first level, if I have a 14 Con and maxxed ranks, that's +6 to my check. Say I take Skill Focus [Concentration], which gives me +3 for a total of +9, meaning I only need a 1 to fail. Does that mean I can continuously cast my 1st level spells all day until I roll a 1? [heck, with that, a 1st level Wizard would have a 50% chance of passing the DC for a 9th level spell of 19, though he couldn't of course be able to CAST the spell...]

I guess that really would give this mage unlimited spellcasting.

This of course assumes I'm reading this correctly....
Heh, I was waiting for a post like that :lol: . I know, this is a rough system - but is anyone here great at the math for this and be able to set up a system where it's level appropriate? The Gods know I'm not.

Dog Moon said:
Of, and where'd you get the pic? Looks cool. I want to find a bigger version and more by that artist if you know the name.
I actually searched a few differnet "wizardy" terms on the net (Arcanist, Mage, Wizard, Sorcerer, etc) and found this pic on a sort of disambigulation page someone has made. Here's the link for it - there are some great pics, D&D and other, that are on there :)

Aus_Snow said:
Legends of Sorcery might be worth a look, as it's another variant on this same theme (among several others in published works and on the internet). RPGObjects' "Legends of ..." historical and myth-based sourcebooks, which also all more or less use that magic system, likewise rock on toast.
I will have to take a look when I get my credit card sometime in the future.... that actually reminded me to inquire about that.

Aus_Snow said:
Regarding your variant in particular, I agree with Dog Moon about the DCs, expecially when taking into account Skill Focus, et al. But I'm curious to see where it goes, and it looks like it is potentially workable.
Yeah, so I figured; it's still a rough draft ATM. But thanks for the feedback; I'd love it to be actually workable, but I need better math-fu for that :p

Aus_Snow said:
And yeah, nice (N)PC image.
Thanks, link's posted up in this post ^ :D
 

Maybe make the wizard a wizard.

Have the spells level up, but not automatically. The wizard class could have spell points, or research points, or whatever you'd like to call them, and a set or gradually-increasing number each class-level, and they would be used for this purpose.

As the spell's level increases, the DC increases. For example, a magic missile spell would have a DC of 11 ( base 10 + 1 for spell level), but to cast the second-level version, upgrade, whatever, the DC would increase to 12. The descriptions and power levels of the spells would have to change, but if you worked out a formula for that, it would be done, and you'd have a nifty new system whereby wizards could cast as often as fighters could swing their swords, and theoretically unlimited spell levels and power, also. There would, of course, have to be some rule in place to keep spell levels lower than 100th level, but that could be as simple as making each consecutive level cost more than the last, or cost its level in spell points to buy, or whatever.

The casting check would be a single one, instead of several, and it would be a d20 +1 for each of the wizard's class-levels, plus intelligence modifier, +/- miscellaneous modifiers, etc. Spellcraft could even play a role in this check. Feats would be factored in using modifiers to DC to represent increased spell-level.

Sorcerers would become an entirely different creature, altogether. :D
 

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