Rope Trick + Bag of Holding/Portable Hole

Echohawk · Sep 21, 2006

The description of the rope trick spell finishes with the words: "Note: It is hazardous to create an extradimensional space within an existing extradimensional space or to take an extradimensional space into an existing one."

So what happens if someone takes a bag of holding inside a rope trick? Does a portal to the astral open, as with a bag of holding/portable hole combination? Does it matter whether or not the bag is opened/used while inside? Ditto for a portable hole.

(Note that I was tempted to post this over on the rules forum, but I'm pretty sure that there isn't a specific rule for this situation, so I'm curious to hear how other folks handle this situation.)

Roadkill101 · Sep 21, 2006

I'm currently at work and have no way to check up on any rules regarding inter-dimensional spaces inside one another. The spell description certainly doesn't seem to indicate any specific hazards. While the DMG certainly spells out the consequences of the Bag of Holding and Portable Hole combination, so the precedent seems set (a bit obliquely) rather than allowing for DM Fiat.
Personally, I'd ignore any consequences for taking a Bag of Holding inside the pocket created by Rope Trick. If I felt like being a RBDM, I could alway's open a rift inot the Astral plane when such items were opened (if not just by mere co-existance).
How about putting a Quiver of Ehlonna inside a Bag of Holding, or taking the quiver into a Rope Trick pocket dimension? Instead of Rope Trick, does the same hold true for Mordenkainens Mansion?

Moon-Lancer · Sep 21, 2006

well one is extra dimensional and the other is inner dimensional, if you want to get picky...

now what happens with a portable hole and ropetrick, who knows. but bag of holding, and ropetrick should be fine.

adwyn · Sep 22, 2006

This came up IMC a few months ago and I could find no answer so my ruling was as above - no ill effect until the bag was opened, then a rift appears. To keep the ploy from being a cheap way to the Astral in the future I rolled some dice behind the screen and feigned checking a table in the 1st ed DMG before announcing "Astral it is".

grodog · Sep 22, 2006

In AD&D the various extra-dimensional magic items and spells would cause various kinds of rifts to open in the fabric of reality, generally dumping PCs within a certain area into another plane.

Effects as follow, quoted from AD&D DMG:

bag into hole: "If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space, and the bag and the cloth are sucked into the void and
forever lost."
hole into bag: "If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to another plane, and the 'hole, bag' and any creatures within o 10' radius are drawn to the plane, the portable hole and bag of holding being destroyed in the process."
if a bag of holding gets burst: "If overloaded, or sharp obiects are placed within so as to pierce it, the bag will rupture and be ruined, and the contents will be lost forever in the
vortices of nilspace."
rope trick: no mention of interaction in DMG or PHB
sphere of annihilation: no explicit mention, but the following other, similar effects are detailed: "Should a gate spell be cast upon a sphere, there is a 50% chance that the
spell will destroy it, 35% that the spell will do nothing, and 15% that a gap will be torn in the spatial fabric, and everything in an 18" radius will be catapulted into another plane or universe. If a rod of cancellation touches a sphere, the two will cause a tremendous explosion as they negote each other. Everything within a 6" radius will sustain 30-120 (3d4 X 10) hit points of damage. A psionic using probability travel discipline when the sphere touches him or her will be able to do away with the sphere, and gain another major psionic power, if he or she succeeds in saving versus magic; failure indicates annihilation."

The rules didn't cover interactions with Leomund's Secret Chest, ...Tiny Hut, or Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, either as I recall. It is likely that Sage Advice addressed this at some point, though.

Umbran · Sep 22, 2006

Moon-Lancer said:
well one is extra dimensional and the other is inner dimensional, if you want to get picky...

If you want to get really picky...

Rope Trick is "extradimensional", while the Bag of Holding and Portable Hole are both "nondimensional". So, with respect to rope trick, the bag and hole should be about the same.

By the item dscriptions, mixing "nondimesional" spaces is a bad idea. By the spell, mixing "extradimensional" spaces is a bad idea.

The simplest interpretation is to simply say that "nondimensional" and "extradimensional" are equivalent, and say that the bag, hole, and trick all are bad news to mix. The safest interpretation is that you can mix "non-" and "extra-" spaces, but you can't mix similar spaces.

I'd say do whatever should be the most fun. If going to the Astral (or somewhere else) is apt to be a death sentence, then have it be safe. If it'll be survivable, have them take the planar hop.

Moon-Lancer · Sep 22, 2006

I agree. Go with whats fun.

coyote6 · Sep 22, 2006

I go with "bad to mix nondimensional with nondimensional" and "bad to mix extradimensional with extradimensional" -- so you can bring your portable hole into your rope trick with no problems.

Otherwise, it's a pain in the butt, as everybody stops to figure out what to do with their various pieces of luggage whenever they have to take a trip to anything that looks vaguely like it might be an extradimensional space (after all, how do you tell the opening to a magnificent mansion from the opening to a pocket dimension? And the players aren't going to risk losing all their stuff and/or being dumped in the astral plane more than once).

Felix · Sep 22, 2006

The text of Rope Trick invites the DM to use their imagination. I'd let the wizard know the possible consequences beforehand, though.

It is also a nice way to stop all-night camping in dungeons with mid-level parties since they'll often have Bags of Holding and the like.

Crothian · Sep 22, 2006

This is always my Plan B assuming we have the items. When things are going really really bad and a TPK or something worse is about to happen I'm always prepared to combine them and see what happens.

Rope Trick + Bag of Holding/Portable Hole

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