One of the group is buying the Book of Nine Swords. What should I expect?

Storyteller01 · Sep 30, 2006

Pretty much what the title says. Is there anything grotesquely wrong, or does the book have good content?

ValhallaGH · Sep 30, 2006

My standard response to a new book is "I haven't seen it, you can't use it. If you have something specific that you really want then show me and I'll tell you whether or not I'll allow it."

I know, not exactly what you were after and probably advice you've heard dozens of times before but I hope it helps anyway.

Vraille Darkfang · Sep 30, 2006

Totally new way of doing a Fighter Type.

Lots of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon type special effects you can get.

The best way I describe it is as a War-Sorcerer.

Imagine a Sorcerer that, rather that channeling his Innate Spellcasting into Arcane Spellcasting, becomes a Fighter and harnesses his innate magical ability into enhancing his Physical Combat.

This isn't just a Plug-On, like a lot of the Complete Books where. It's a completly new system.

It also includes a lot of Fluff about the School of Nine Swords and the history of the Fighting Styles in the Book.

If he wants to use a Feat or Item here and there, you should have no problem, just make sure you read it first.

If he wants to play a Warblade or one of the other Base Classes, You'd better skim over that book for an hour or so to see if you even WANT to allow it in your game.

If yes, I'd ask to borrow the book for a few days to read it over before making a final decision.

As for any Real World Testing.

I have the book. One of my Players also bought it. He is currently playing a Psychic Warrior/Fighter, and is starting to go up Levels of Warblade. So far, so good, but he's only Level 2 Warblade.

I also have put a Game-World Restriction in place. The ways of the Nine Swords can only be learned from a Wandering Master, or a school that teaches one of the Ways. (As it turns out the party had already had several contacts with the Citadel of the Eagle where I decided the vast majority of all Warblades are trained).

Nifft · Sep 30, 2006

Expect a Warblade.

It is a powerful class -- not quite Druid-powerful, but perhaps above Barbarian. d12 HD, full BAB, 4 skill points/level, and cool magic tricks they can use almost every round.

Basically, it's a Fighter-Guy who can stand up at 20th level without crying silently to himself, "I wish I'd played a Cleric". I'd consider playing one. It's probably balanced.

Later, expect a Jade Phoenix Mage, probably consisting of Warblade 2 / Wizard 4 / JPM 10 or a Warblade 1 / Wizard 6 / JPM 10. From what I've seen on the CO boards, the JPM can do some pretty sick stuff. I'd love to play one. It may be broken.

I've only had the book for a few days, but those are my conclusions so far.

Cheers, -- N

kaomera · Sep 30, 2006

Storyteller01 said:
Pretty much what the title says. Is there anything grotesquely wrong, or does the book have good content?

All IMHO; YMWMLV.

Bo9S showed up at the FLGS the day I started my new campaign. We have a Warblade and a Swordsage in the party.

Personally, I find that the flavor is more video-game than wuxia, but I can see that as being more a product of the way maneuvers are being described at the table than anything else.

I hope the player in question is someone who can understand the rules fully on the first go-through. Having to stop the game because a player totally misread a maneuver's text or a class feature kinda sucks.
:heh:

Maneuvers require a bit of finesse to reach their full potential. Our Drow Paragon 2 is overall outdamaging either of the Martial Adept characters, both third level. He also doesn't spend two rounds moving into position to use a maneuver that deals additional fire damage to a creature that is shrugging off the Dragon Adept's fire breath...

I would definitely suggest having players make 3x5 cards with maneuver and stance specifics on them. Not only does it help keep track of what maneuvers are ready / expended / not readied, but it makes keeping track of the self-buffs from stances and boosts a lot easier.

Fighters in the group may end up wishing they had maneuvers, Martial Adepts will probably end up wishing they got more bonus feats. (I've had to explain to the Warblade's player that there is no way to work he math so that taking less than four levels of Fighter will get him access to Specialization any earlier.) The one advantage of the Martial Adept classes that a Fighter just cannot match is skill points. OTOT the Fighter has much less problem with MAD.
:\ The party will probably not want to give combat-useful magic items that require a Swift action to activate to a Martial Adept...

BryonD · Sep 30, 2006

Nifft said:
Expect a Warblade.

It is a powerful class -- not quite Druid-powerful, but perhaps above Barbarian. d12 HD, full BAB, 4 skill points/level, and cool magic tricks they can use almost every round.

We just finished a short high level game while one of my players is out of town.
One character was a twinked out monkey-gripping spiked chain kensai.
Another was a very nerfed version of the warblade.
I'd say the nerfed warblade was only significantly better than the kensai.

No question in my mind that the as written in Bo9S the Warblade is insane broken.
The nerfed version was easily as potent as the party druid.

Insane overpowered broken broken broken.

BryonD · Sep 30, 2006

Here is the warblade.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2

As someone else mentioned, it probably would be a fair to slightly weak class if you took everything else and left the maneuvers out completely. And the maneuvers are the cornerstone of the class.

Lackhand · Sep 30, 2006

one other thing is that the classes, being 'spellcastery', exhibit the same power curve all spellcasters do; i.e., if they're higher level than you, even by only a level or two, you're
*dead*.
luckily, they have relatively few "knock out all the mooks" abilities; but it means be wary of using them as BBEG -- or perhaps consider using them as BBEG, since they can take a lot of abuse.

And oh brother is the Warblade broken : p As others have said, I'd consider playing one *without* maneuvers!

brehobit · Sep 30, 2006

Two comments:
The swordsage is probably more broken in the hands of a skilled rules-monkey than the warblade. We've got one (I've posted about him in previous threads) and he's very very powerful. It just takes a lot more effort to pull it off. Broken? I'd say yes.

Crusader is also very powerful. Certainly better than any other full BAB class other than (perhaps) warblade. Maybe a tie with duskblade depending on the game.

The class abilities are complex enough that they can slow things down a bit. (We started at 5th level so there was a lot to learn.) But ours seems to be getting it figured out. Still a bit on the slow side as he has to generally anounce 2 things a round...

The index cards (mentioned above) are a *must* for a crusader and a mighty fine idea for everyone else. I forsee WoTC publishing such cards at some point. Think the handy cards associated with the over-powered base classes will sell well?

Mark

Cadfan · Sep 30, 2006

All three classes are powerful. I don't think any are broken.

You will need to read the book. It is very rules intensive. The book essentially contains a new system of resource management, and if you don't read it, the player may be able to fool you (whether intentionally or through his own mistake). Make sure to review swift and immediate actions, as well as how maneuvers are recovered for whatever class your players use.

In terms of balance, the book is fine. A lot of people think its overpowered, but that's probably because people only look to offensive abilities when considering a class's effectiveness. I personally wouldn't worry about it.