Pc's carrying Pc's

Are there any rules about one character picking up another smaller character and moving him/her?

We have 3 small characters in our group and when the tough get going they try to pick up the little ones and move off with them.

While not opposed to this in general, there are some wonky things that can happen. Such as the 'pc baton' where one person could be picked up and moved, then handed off to another character (that has not moved yet) and moved again... repeat till out of characters.

There is also the issue of the small character taking his turn and then being moved. You could get into the case of him casting a full round spell (like enlarge... not one like summon x), being moved and set down and then casting again next turn and repeat.

I've currently house ruled it like so: "You can't pick them up if they have moved already. If you are picked up and moved that is your turn... sort of. You would have some limited options as you are lugged around (talking, giving directions, complaining about sharp metal armor...). Picking someone up is a move equiv. I'd think putting them down nicely is a move equiv too. Maybe dropping them could be a free action they they end up prone? "


One of the players thought he saw something offical about this but we can't find it.

Thanks,

rv

(Responded to out of order.)

rvalle said:

While not opposed to this in general, there are some wonky things that can happen. Such as the 'pc baton' where one person could be picked up and moved, then handed off to another character (that has not moved yet) and moved again... repeat till out of characters.

Click to expand...

Note that this happens with normal objects, too, and is a problem with the cyclical combat system. My solution is to interpret the DMG guideline on simultaneity to put an official (i.e. Rules-based) stop to those types of shenanigans, including the pass-the-wand trick.

rvalle said:

Are there any rules about one character picking up another smaller character and moving him/her?

Click to expand...

No, there really aren't. Most people will treat it like picking up an object, and use encumbrance rules as normal. Some will even say that if the creature is badly injured and you want to avoid reinjuring that creature, it's a full round action to pick up and regardless of weight, you move at half-speed.

Whatever rules you use, you should make sure they work for your game. If you don't want a grim n' gritty game and want to let the 'heroes' have an option to flee once in a while, then having looser rules to allow picking up comrades is a good idea. In general, however, it would be nontrivial to move same-size buddies during combat.

Out of combat, you probably get away with encumbrance rules, and maybe grapple rules if the characters don't want to be picked up

I would avoid allowing this during combat, unless it is being used for running away.

In that case, I would consider the carried character grappled for all purposes, including spellcasting.

About movement, it seems to me that a character shouldn't be able in the same round to move more than (1) as far as he could go alone in one round or (2) as far as his mount/carrier can move in one round. Given the simultaneity of everybody's round, how far you can move should be limited by the 6 seconds rather than the amount of move actions at your disposal.

That means for example that it's not fair that a gnome gets a double move, end up jumping on a horse or grabbed by his ogre friend, and then move also the distance covered by the other's double move.

But on the other hand I wouldn't even bother too much about making strict rules about it. In an emergency situation (e.g. the gnome is unsconscious and the friend grabs him to run away both) I'd probably let them do it.

I think the abuses are very rare, and fraknly how abusive?

If a player spends his actions moving another character along faster, what have you gained really? In a way its just like aid another, your helping another player at the expense of your actions, which often isn't the optimal way to fight monsters. So I say let them do it the few times it comes up.

Stalker0 said:

I think the abuses are very rare, and fraknly how abusive?

If a player spends his actions moving another character along faster, what have you gained really? In a way its just like aid another, your helping another player at the expense of your actions, which often isn't the optimal way to fight monsters. So I say let them do it the few times it comes up.

Click to expand...

Because what is good for the goose is good for the gander. The players operate by the same rules everyone else in the game world does. If the tactic works then the mook ogre taxis the high level NPCs to where they can launch a full attack.

Stalker0 said:

I think the abuses are very rare, and fraknly how abusive?

If a player spends his actions moving another character along faster, what have you gained really? In a way its just like aid another, your helping another player at the expense of your actions, which often isn't the optimal way to fight monsters. So I say let them do it the few times it comes up.

Click to expand...

Because if I sign on on it as 'ok' then it will happen a lot more. And then the party will start to push the limits.

"I pick up the halfling Sorc carry him around to the side so he can cast a lightning bolt on his turn" or whatever.

In the game where it came up I hesitated and then let it happen. They immeditaly started talking about picking someone up and moving them then setting them down so they can cast a spell on their turn and then pick them back up again. Thats when I had to step in and squash such ideas.

rv

As a suggestion, you might treat it kind of like an intelligent mount. The mount rules somewhat cover these kind of situations (with one creature carrying another), and definitely better than the straight encumbrance rules do.

I'd treat this issue as just another case of people exploiting loopholes in the rules. And, as such, I'd rule-zero it.

It certainly is originally a "rules bug", a large group of people each of which moves and passes an object to the next can make that object cover any distance in 6 seconds

I'd personally allow it. Make it a move action to pick up the character. That what it's move action (pick up), move action (move), free action (drop/put down). So that character spends his entire turn just moving around the mage. Sure the mage is in a different place, but he's only moved what? 30ft? Mixed with the mage casting and moving, it's what? 50-60 ft moved total? If the other character wants to kill their turn for that round, I see no trouble with it. Sure, they get to jockey the mage around, but they're doing absolutely nothing. Throw some monsters with SR at them or some golems. Let them know that if they just move the mage around, they're screwed and that the mage isn't the central character. That they all have to work together. That seems to be the crux of the problem, that they see the mage as thier only (or biggest) weapon. All classes should contribute to combat.

If you really don't want them moving the mage, just have the mage make ride checks, or concentration checks for being moved. That'll mess up some of his spells and make him reconsider. (It's also more realistic).

(btw: Hi, new to these forums, used to Giant In The Playground.)