PHII Knight and Defensive Sweep

TheGogmagog · Dec 6, 2006

I'm curious what people here think the interaction between these two abilities are.
Knight's Bulwark of Defense (EX): If an opponent begins its turn in a threatened area, the area is difficult terrain to him. (paraphased, full text on p 28)
Defensive Sweep: If an opponent you threaten doesn't move, he draws an attack of opportunity. (paraphrased, see full text on p78)

It would seem that an opponent of a Knight has the option of a) move away in stratigic withdrawl b) move and act drawing an attack of opportunity c) stand and full attack drawing an attack of opportunity. The 5' step is not available in difficult terrain.

Is it too Cheesy to allow both to affect a target, or do you think that the development team intended them to be used together? Keep in mind you are at least 15th level by the time you can take Defensive sweep.

Darklone · Dec 6, 2006

I think it's ok. Tumble still works... Mobility still helps... Concealment helps against the AoO... so where's the problem?

Artoomis · Dec 6, 2006

I see no prohibition against a 5-foot step for difficult terrain.

srd said:
Hampered Movement
Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move.

If more than one condition applies, multiply together all additional costs that apply. (This is a specific exception to the normal rule for doubling)

In some situations, your movement may be so hampered that you don’t have sufficient speed even to move 5 feet (1 square). In such a case, you may use a full-round action to move 5 feet (1 square) in any direction, even diagonally. Even though this looks like a 5-foot step, it’s not, and thus it provokes attacks of opportunity normally. (You can’t take advantage of this rule to move through impassable terrain or to move when all movement is prohibited to you.)

You can’t run or charge through any square that would hamper your movement.

FCWesel · Dec 6, 2006

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, huh?

At 15th level I don't know if it is that big of a deal since you are burning your AoO for the round and not getting additional ones for the feat, and you don't get the AoO until AFTER his turn is over.

A Knight having it makes it really interesting for his opponents, sure, but I think that's okay. Every character should have some kick-butt ability at that level, this seems okay.

Well, there's always tumbling to avoid a AoO. And at that level, the tumbler is hardly ever going to miss.

FCWesel · Dec 6, 2006

Artoomis said:
I see no prohibition against a 5-foot step for difficult terrain.

Well, you quoted where most folks see the problem.

Hampered Movement
Difficult terrain, obstacles, or poor visibility can hamper movement. When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move.

If squares count as 10' (ie, "each square moved into usually counts as two squares"), you cannot take a 5' step as you are moving as if you are moving 10', not 5'. It's not unlike when you move at 5' or 10' on every-other diaginal.

Also, is a 5-foot step considered a "Move" action?

More importantly, a 5' foot step provokes a AoO under the Defensive Sweep feat on page 78.

ElectricDragon · Dec 6, 2006

SRD said:
You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn’t hampered by difficult terrain or darkness.

Tumbling is at half speed (halved again for difficult terrain) and increases the DCs by 2 or more (or one square is 20 ft.). Or you can move at full speed tumbling (halved for difficult terrain) by taking a -10 to your check. So, Tumbling works if you spend your whole move on one square (at +2 to the DC) or effectively increase the DCs by 12.

Ciao
Dave

Shadeus · Dec 6, 2006

ElectricDragon said:
Tumbling is at half speed (halved again for difficult terrain) and increases the DCs by 2 or more (or one square is 20 ft.). Or you can move at full speed tumbling (halved for difficult terrain) by taking a -10 to your check. So, Tumbling works if you spend your whole move on one square (at +2 to the DC) or effectively increase the DCs by 12.

Ciao
Dave

If I remember right, don't Knights have an ability to help make tumble more difficult? Like don't they add their class level to the Tumble DC? Adding 15 to the Tumble DC will make it tough. I think it's a great combo, but not overly broken.

TheGogmagog · Dec 6, 2006

Yes, the knights do add thier class level to Tumble DC's (Vigilant Defender) at 5th level.

IanB · Dec 6, 2006

TheGogmagog said:
Yes, the knights do add thier class level to Tumble DC's (Vigilant Defender) at 5th level.

Hm, I may have to come up with a house rule to handle the interaction with that and my tumble DC house rule! (Tumble DC = 10+reflex save of whatever you're tumbling past).

MarkB · Dec 6, 2006

One thing to bear in mind is that it's only stepping into an area of difficult terrain that hampers a character's movement. A character who starts his turn in melee against a knight with a reach of 5 feet can make a full attack and then take a 5-foot step away from the knight, since the square he's stepping to doesn't hamper movement.

Knights with reach weapons (especially spiked chain) can make this more difficult, but then they forego their shield-related class features.

PHII Knight and Defensive Sweep

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