Ready Action to Spring Attack?

Can you ready an action to Spring Attack?

For instance, I ready my action to Spring Attack when creature X gets to a certain point on the grid...

Do you have to signal the exact spot the creature is in, or can you just say, "When it approaches me."

Aluvial

Damn that's a good question. I don't know.

The feat description says 'when using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, ...'

The attack action (no such thing actually) is a Standard Action (PHB p141 Table 8-2: Actions in Combat).

Under Ready (PHB p160) it states that 'you can ready a standard action, a move action, or a free action.'

So it would appear that you can ready a Spring Attack.

However, I don't think that you should be able to.

There's some weirdness in the Spring Attack description, which evidently stems from a careless conversion to 3.5. In 3.0, a standard action (with which you could make a single attack) included a single move or move-equivalent action. The SA feat let you split the move into two pieces, one before and one after the attack. A SA clearly could not be readied in 3.0--you could only ready partial actions.

The wording of the feat stayed the same in 3.5, but actions are defined differently. A standard action is a single attack all by its lonesome; in a turn, you get either a standard action plus a move action, two move actions, or a full round action. SO, as the feat is currently worded for 3.5, you can:

-Move a total of your speed before and after a single attack, then take an additional move or move-equivalent action.
-Ready a spring attack.
-Make a spring attack during the surprise round, or while slowed.
etc.

Most observers believe this is clearly an unintended consequence of the action rules changes, and that SA should have been reworded to something like, "As a full-round action, you may make a single melee attack, moving before and after the attack up to a total of your speed. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity from your target," or somesuch. That's certainly my opinion, but it's not how the rules read as written--it's an interpretation based on the assumption that the designers didn't intend to heavily ramp up the power of the feat in the edition change.

For what it's worth, the special edition PHB (and subsequent printings, I believe) changed the description of Spring Attack to something like: when you take the attack action, you can split your move action so that you move both before and after the attack.

Hence, making a Spring Attack requires you to have both a standard action (to attack) and a move action (to move). Thus, you cannot ready a Spring Attack, but you could delay your action and Spring Attack at a later time (possibly after an opponent has moved into position).

FireLance said:

For what it's worth, the special edition PHB (and subsequent printings, I believe) changed the description of Spring Attack to something like: when you take the attack action, you can split your move action so that you move both before and after the attack.

Hence, making a Spring Attack requires you to have both a standard action (to attack) and a move action (to move). Thus, you cannot ready a Spring Attack, but you could delay your action and Spring Attack at a later time (possibly after an opponent has moved into position).

Click to expand...

This is the exact wording from the leather bound PHB.

PHB said:

When using the attack action witha melee weapon, you can split your move action in that round in order to move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke...

Click to expand...

So you got it right, it seems that you need both the move action (which you split up, with at least 5' on either side of the attack) and the attack action, which is of course a standard action.

I wonder if there is an advanced Spring Attack that allows a Full Round Action between moves? Almost like a free move action...

Anyhow, if this is right, you cannot Spring Attack with a readied action because you are short either the move or the standard action when you choose to ready.

If you delay, the creature moves and THEN you can Spring Attack, but that wasn't the issue.

Ahh, how my players grow to hate these message boards...

Aluvial

Aluvial said:

I wonder if there is an advanced Spring Attack that allows a Full Round Action between moves? Almost like a free move action...

Click to expand...

Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz.

Darklone said:

Bounding Assault and Rapid Blitz.

Click to expand...

In which book(s) are these?

Aluvial

Sorry... forgot to post them. PHB 2.

Darklone said:

Sorry... forgot to post them. PHB 2.

Click to expand...

I'll print these here to be complete and then I have a question

PHBII said:

Bounding Assault
You can move and attack with superior speed and power.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, BAB +12.
Benefit: When using the Spring Attack feat, you designate two foes rather than one. Your movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity from either of these foes. While using an attack action with the Spring Attack feat, you can make a second attack with a -5 penalty. You can use both attacks against one of the opponents targeted with this feat, or split your attacks between them.

Rapid Blitz
You charge across the battlefield, combining your speed and fighting ability to move and attack with unmatched skill
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Bounding Assault, BAB +18
Benefit: You can designate a third target for your Spring Attack feat. In addition to the second attack you gain from your Bounding Assault feat, you can make a third attack with a -10 penalty.

Click to expand...

Question: So, do you need to have two (or three) foes to make use of these feats, or can you make mutiple attacks agaist just one opponent?

I know that it says that you can choose to use the attacks on one of the foes, but it sort-of implies that you may have to have two foes present to use the feat...

I may be reading into it, but you know how we like to be VERY exact!

Aluvial

I read the foe designating only applying to the "no AoO provoked" part. The part about the second attack is written separate from the first two sentences.

Same for the second feat: The additional attacks refer in no way to the designation of the opponents.

Edit: I'd like to see a ruling how these feats work with TWF.