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Why Miniatures are Randomized

mmadsen

First Post
When the subject of randomized miniatures -- or randomized anything, really -- comes up (e.g. Dear Hasbro), almost everyone characterizes it as an evil marketing ploy to take people's money. Now, I have little interest in buying randomized miniatures -- they're not for me -- but I do have an interest in supply chain management, so I thought I'd cite what Charles Ryan had to say earlier on the subject:
Guys, Merric's Law is dead-on. No matter how much you may want something different, the economics of the game business simply won't allow another model to succeed at D&D's level. (And by "succeed," I don't just mean "make money for WotC." I also mean "get minis into the hands of gamers who want them.")

Merric is right to point out that the development cost for prepainted plastic minis is very high, and it's prohibitive to make a mini that won't sell in quantity--or that might not sell in quantity.

But the real barrier isn't even production: it's distribution. Were minis non-randomized--or even released in tightly-themed sets--WotC would have to make guesses about which minis or sets would be popular, and which wouldn't. Then the distributors would have to make the same guesses when they place their orders. Then the retailers would have to do the same. Unless everyone guessed exactly right every time, the channel would become choked with slow-moving product. At best, the industry would have to factor the cost of that dead product into the price of the minis, increasing already-higher prices by 50%+. At worse, the system would grind to a halt, like it did after the CCG glut and the d20 glut and the 2nd-edition D&D glut, and people would go out of business and the minis would cease to be a viable product line.

And then there's the issue of what stores are prepared to carry. With WotC's randomized scheme, the D&D minis line consist of just 3 to 5 individual products per year. Easy on everyone. Compare that to Heroscape (35 or 40 products in 2 years) or Games Workshop (zillions of products). Any store can manage 3 to 5 products per year for a given line. But the more products you add, the less likely it is that a store will carry them all--or even enough of them to make the line viable. Someone pointed out that the 143 figures that Heroscape has released might be enough for D&D. Fine, but have you ever seen a store that carried all 143--or even most of them?

Randomization gets miniatures into our hands reliably and inexpensively. It may be inconvenient to go to the secondary market if you don't want to buy randomly--but it's a hell of a lot less inconvenient than the alternatives.​
Guessing what inventory to carry and then carrying inventory that doesn't sell is very, very expensive for retail stores and distributors.

How about carrying a few packs of popular themed miniatures?
So most people on this thread seem to agree that in a nonrandom model, WotC probably wouldn't make very many obscure minis. And I'm not seeing many calls for WotC to individually package the valuable rares.

Many people do, however, seem to think WotC can and should create theme packs based around common minis, like orcs or skeletons. Although it's counter-intuitive, this is just as problematic as releasing rare minis individually.

A common such as an orc or skeleton, on its own, isn't particuarly valuable, as compared to a rare (say, a beholder). (And by "valuable," I mean both "worth more money" and "perceived as being a cool, desirable, boss-monster type at the gaming table.")

But a group of commons, together, really are comparable--as is evidenced by how many people here claim to want such groups. Take away the desire to collect a bunch of orcs, and you undermine the value of a randomized booster just as much as if you take away the desire to collect a single beholder.

And again, the problems that I outlined in my earlier post remain just as valid. How many of these common packs should WotC introduce? A pack of orcs? Skeletons? Adventurers? How about goblins? Kobolds?

Follow this path and WotC either has to: A) produce just one or two products, which would make a couple people on this thread happy but simply further piss off those guys who want nonrandom commons but didn't get the ones they want, or B) produce a handful--or a bunch--of products, and run into all the distribution problems I talked about before.

If WotC produced, say, ten different common assortments over the next year, how many would your local store carry? If they ordered the wrong amount (or their distributor did, or WotC did), how much dead product would be introduced into the channel, to increase prices or run the risk of a glut? How much demand would there be here on the ENworld boards for WotC to make it 15 sets next year?

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what your non-random products are. Even collections of commons have the capacity to screw up a system that currently delivers minis to us gamers very, very efficiently.​
Unfortunately, those themed packs then eat into the value of the randomized packs.

Games Workshop sells non-randomized miniatures. How do they do it?
Games Workshop is an interesting example, but be careful not to confuse two different business phenomena at work here. GW is a market leader and innovator, in the same way that D&D is the RPG market leader and innovator. By that I mean that they both pioneered and grabbed an early, massive lead in their respective categories. (I don't mean that they're necessarily innovative today or throughout their lives.)

It's a truism of business--all business, not just games--that a market leader of this sort is virtually impossible to knock off, unless they blunder horribly or the marketplace changes dramatically and they don't react. Despite enormous ups and downs over the past 30 years, D&D remains the undisputed king of RPGs, in terms of sales, players, and brand recognition. No competitor has any real chance of changing that unless there's a massive shift in the marketplace that WotC ignores, or WotC otherwise completely screws up D&D (screws it up even worse than TSR did, because even that didn't topple D&D).

GW is in the same position with minis.

GW's market and brand position is such that it would take an enormous effort, and 10s of millions of dollars, for any company even to sidle up toward a close second place to them. Which, in turn, means that the marketplace really doesn't have room for another miniatures line based on the same nonrandom model.

This plays itself out in the LGS pretty obviously: retailers that devote enough shelf space to carry a full line of GW don't generally have enough resources to support a second large line of nonrandom minis.

So GW actually becomes a counter-argument: There's a powerful market leader that already dominates the non-random minis business. It would be suicidal for WotC to try to beat GW at their own game; they're much better off (and so are any gamers who want to have D&D miniatures) doing something very different and growing the market in a different direction.

[As an aside, it's arguable whether DDM has not affected GW, or that GW continues "to eat WotC for breakfast." Yes, GW is huge in the minis market--much bigger than WotC--but you might want to check their recent shareholders reports before citing them so vehemently. And comparing Privateer and Reaper to DDM is a little like comparing Spycraft to D&D.]​
 
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mmadsen said:
But the real barrier isn't even production: it's distribution. Were minis non-randomized--or even released in tightly-themed sets--WotC would have to make guesses about which minis or sets would be popular, and which wouldn't. Then the distributors would have to make the same guesses when they place their orders. Then the retailers would have to do the same. Unless everyone guessed exactly right every time, the channel would become choked with slow-moving product. At best, the industry would have to factor the cost of that dead product into the price of the minis, increasing already-higher prices by 50%+. At worse, the system would grind to a halt, like it did after the CCG glut and the d20 glut and the 2nd-edition D&D glut, and people would go out of business and the minis would cease to be a viable product line.

Wow. That makes a lot of sense and is actually really clever. It makes me wonder how many other industries this approach would work in.
 

Very good post.

There is another thing to consider, for those of us who purchase the minis. Price and Time.

I was @ my LGS comparing prices. They were selling the DDM for full retail $15/box. They also had a very good line of GW.

So I went over and looked at prices for packs of mooks. Most were around 9-12 plastic minis, maybe a few more. Prices ranged from 30-45 bucks a pack. Many had lots of dust on them. How much more for paint, brushes, glue, time?

In the same store they had the DDM 8 minis for 15 bucks, (or 16 for 30) None of the GW had 16 minis to my recollection. So you get more mini's per dollar with DDM. Though it is random compared to GW. Nothing older than War Drums and they sold very well. Took up one shelf. GW takes up half the store.

The other big thing is time. I do not have time (nor the talent or desire) to paint minis. It took me 3 years to prime the LotR minis I got, and they still aren't painted. Sure DDM is not as good of a paint job as a well done GW, but it is better than I can do saves me time and money on paints and supplies.

Even IF WotC did mook packs they would NOT sell at the current prices. They would have to be more than what GW charges to make up for sales volume. Not to mention lost revenues from customers not buying random packs to buy the mook packs. Then people would be complaining that WotC was just bilking the customers and ripping them off with higher prices. Catch 22

The random minis gets us minis that are inexpensive, ready to go, they even come with stat cards. A non-random model will get us minis with little variety and at a higher cost.

There IS a secondary market. Ebay, LGS, Online Trading, Enworlders selling figs, Online Stores etc. You have LOTS of choices to get exactly what you want. There were a few people on the 'Dear Hasbro' thread that were dead set against doing business online or with CC, or with ebay or with paypal. Hey I hate the post office the cable company and the power company too... but I suck it up. I like getting my checks, watching HBO and having power, air-conditioning is mandatory in FL.

Frankly it is 2007. I am not typing this on my Comodore 64. I have never seen a Pinto IRL and my cell phone is smaller than my wallet, and my tv remote does not weigh 10 pounds and teathered to the TV. You really need to step into the 21st century. I use a debit card not credit cards and pay cash for anything that I can. More hassle and I can under stand it. But in the real world you are a VERY small minority of people who refuse to do business online. WotC will never cater to such a small market share. I can understand security precautions and there ARE ways to use Ebay and even Paypal safely. I hate both but they are vialble tools. I won't change the blade on my circular saw while it is plugged in or use it without safety glasses. Same can be true of paypal. Open a free checking accout with a debit card for use SOLEY with paypal. Activate the paypal account with that debit card and connect it to that bank account. Never leave money in there add it when you want to purchase something. Get the FREE paypal debit card (they give you cash back when you run it as a credit card - free money). Withdraw any leftover money immediately.

Also there were a couple very reputable ebay sellers on the other threads. Nothing but good reviews. Never will you get that with ANY brick and mortar store.

The random model is the only way we have at present to get a wide variety of very inexpensive minis that are prepainted and specificaly geared towards D&D. And a very viable and easy to use secondary market.

Way to go WotC.
 

Mishihari Lord said:
Wow. That makes a lot of sense and is actually really clever. It makes me wonder how many other industries this approach would work in.

And honestly, one of the biggest mistakes I've noticed with most FLGS is the amount of old product they sit on. The profit margins are so tight that many are unwilling to discount product that isn't selling to make space for new products that will sell (or at least might sell). However, all those products take up space and unless that's a selling point for your store ("hundreds of out-of-print games") then it's a huge drag on their business.
 

Mishihari Lord said:
Wow. That makes a lot of sense and is actually really clever. It makes me wonder how many other industries this approach would work in.

...

Randomized music selection at iTunes?

"Buy a booster of Mp3's, get new music experience!"

of course, any band that ever cracked the top 40 would be ultra-rare...
 

Agent Oracle said:
...Randomized music selection at iTunes? "Buy a booster of Mp3's, get new music experience!" of course, any band that ever cracked the top 40 would be ultra-rare...
Actually, that points to an example of just when you do not need such a model. Digital products have negligible holding costs. That might have been an interesting strategy for tangible music CDs though. Really interesting.
 

mmadsen said:
... almost everyone characterizes it as an evil marketing ploy to take people's money.

To be fair, although I certainly can't speak for everyone, a lot of folks in the aforementioned thread didn't call either WotC or making money "evil." We just asked why we can't get what we want. I make money at my job. I hope folks at WotC do, too, because I like some of their products. I do not, however, like some of their products nor some of their distribution practices. As someone who has paid a LOT of money to Wizards of the Coast and purchased a metric butt-ton of their books, I don't think I'm being unreasonable, in this regard, either.

mmadsen said:
But the real barrier isn't even production: it's distribution. Were minis non-randomized--or even released in tightly-themed sets--WotC would have to make guesses about which minis or sets would be popular, and which wouldn't. Then the distributors would have to make the same guesses when they place their orders. Then the retailers would have to do the same. Unless everyone guessed exactly right every time, the channel would become choked with slow-moving product. At best, the industry would have to factor the cost of that dead product into the price of the minis, increasing already-higher prices by 50%+. At worse, the system would grind to a halt, like it did after the CCG glut and the d20 glut and the 2nd-edition D&D glut, and people would go out of business and the minis would cease to be a viable product line.

But this doesn't explain why EVERYTHING has to be randomized. How about a war series? One that is designed at collecting armies or units? One where you could be reasonably certain that if you purchased four or five of the boxes that you're going to put together a reasonable unit of orcs, or skeletons, or kobolds, or something? Anything?

As far as gluts go, I got bad news: We're already WELL on our way to a 2nd Edition rules glut. I think there is going to be a market revolt if they announce the release of 4th Edition at any point in the next two years, at least.

mmadsen said:
Someone pointed out that the 143 figures that Heroscape has released might be enough for D&D. Fine, but have you ever seen a store that carried all 143--or even most of them?

Nobody expects any store to carry all of them. There are so many channels of distribution at this point, though, that it seems odd that you can't get what you want without hunting it down on eBay, especially when there are so many folks in these threads who declare their disgust with randomized minis and their desire for something else.

mmadsen said:
Randomization gets miniatures into our hands reliably and inexpensively.

Inexpensively, perhaps. Reliably? No.

mmadsen said:
And I'm not seeing many calls for WotC to individually package the valuable rares.

Go ahead and package them however you want. I've bought my packs, and despaired of ever getting what I wanted without buying a bazillion boosters. When I can't even get a pack of orcs non-randomized, what's the point of asking for anything else?

mmadsen said:
Many people do, however, seem to think WotC can and should create theme packs based around common minis, like orcs or skeletons. Although it's counter-intuitive, this is just as problematic as releasing rare minis individually.

It is counter-intuitive, although it's nice to see someone admit that with so many folks trumpeting their business acumen that this is so blatantly obvious.

mmadsen said:
And again, the problems that I outlined in my earlier post remain just as valid. How many of these common packs should WotC introduce? A pack of orcs? Skeletons? Adventurers? How about goblins? Kobolds?

Or take the largest groups of typical bad guys, and randomize them somewhat, but still give you some hope that if you buy at least a half-dozen packs, you'll have some reasonable encounter sets for the game.

As it is, I know I must go to secondary sellers if I ever hope to acquire sets of minis even close to one another in theme or style.

I do it because I have to. But it seems like there should be another way.
 

Glyfair said:
And honestly, one of the biggest mistakes I've noticed with most FLGS is the amount of old product they sit on. The profit margins are so tight that many are unwilling to discount product that isn't selling to make space for new products that will sell (or at least might sell). However, all those products take up space and unless that's a selling point for your store ("hundreds of out-of-print games") then it's a huge drag on their business.

This is not unique to the gaming industry. It's a problem with not understanding inventory turns and cashflow. I worked for an independant sporting goods store with a huge, bloated inventory of bicycles, cross-country skis and exercise equipment. The owner did not want to hear that he should sell off old inventory cheap and only buy large quantities of the popular items. (Which is exactly what Dick's Sporting Goods and other chains do.)

On topic, the point about Games Workshop had escaped me, but I think it's relevant. Highly relevant in fact. Thanks for posting that.
 

mmadsen said:
GW's market and brand position is such that it would take an enormous effort, and 10s of millions of dollars, for any company even to sidle up toward a close second place to them. Which, in turn, means that the marketplace really doesn't have room for another miniatures line based on the same nonrandom model.

This plays itself out in the LGS pretty obviously: retailers that devote enough shelf space to carry a full line of GW don't generally have enough resources to support a second large line of nonrandom minis.
[/Indent]

At least on a local level...

Warmachine from Privateer Press has been steadly taken over shop space from GW at our Local Game Store (Even the B&N at the Mall has some of the Warmachine Starter Sets).

The Staff is pushing them pretty hard, but still.

They are Cheaper & better looking than the GW Options.

I don't play any miniature games, put I have a handful of Warmachine. GW just look really overpriced for what they are (Miniatures, the Game System has no impact on a personal level).

Will PP take over GW? Probablly not. But it seem to be gaining momentum.

As for the Random Mini Arguement....

I usually buy my minis based on the "I need One XXXXXX Tonight & 3 YYYYYYYY" Random Minis fails to come remotely close to fulfilling my needs.

But I'm not their target audience anyway.
 

Games like Warmachine can do decent sideline business, but they're niche. They have to compete with all the other niche games. Which is fine- but they tend to be miniature gamer's "second games." Most Warmachine players I know already have an army for one of the Warhammer games, and were seeking variety.

One of the biggest selling points of Warhammer is simply this: if I move to the other side of the continent, people there will be playing it. Also, I feel confident that in 10 years, people will still be playing it. This is an essential element of the hobby, and is exactly the reason that a "market leader" is hard to unseat.
 

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