[Bo9S] Evasive Reflexes

This lets you take a 5 ft. step instead of an AoO.

Has anybody seen this in action? I don't like the potential for allies to "push" you along by provoking AoOs from you, but in practice you'll be limited in how many AoOs you can take, and the total movement in a round could be limited to your speed (or twice that, if you've taken a double move).

Are there any other potential kinks in the feat?

jasin said:

? I don't like the potential for allies to "push" you along by provoking AoOs from you, ..

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Since your allies are by definition not your opponents, that's not possible.

SRD-AoOs said:

Moving: Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent.

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I just dislike that, somehow, the actions of your enemy can aid you more than the actions of your friends. Your enemy does something which, contrary to his intention, lets you get an extra movement. But your friends can't help you out the same way?

I know this doesn't matter from a game balance POV, but (just like with Cleaving on AoO, and for the same reason), it doesn't sit well with me.

I took the feat found it was useless because nobody provoked AoOs. I later replaced it with something useful instead.

No monster in our game has ever provoked an AoO. Despite their int scores, they are all tactical geniuses.

Seeten said:

No monster in our game has ever provoked an AoO. Despite their int scores, they are all tactical geniuses.

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Maybe because you don't use Karmic Strike or Robilar's Gambit.

Nail said:

Since your allies are by definition not your opponents, that's not possible.

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Who defines allies and opponents? I always assumed it was the character whose allies and opponents are under consideration, which makes the requirement that it be opponents trivial. Just consider everyone your opponents (even if they're helping you for the moment), and when they present an opening, instead of smacking them upside the head, weave about them and end up 5 ft. away.

This is the same issue that people had with the 3.5 change that you couldn't charge through "allies". No problem: just consider everyone your opponent and declare you're overrunning them. That way they have the option of moving out of your way. Or something like that.

It's not something that will come up unless people deliberately make the effort to exploit the system. A bigger problem is that, as mentioned, AoOs are so rare in the first place.

Seeten said:

No monster in our game has ever provoked an AoO. Despite their int scores, they are all tactical geniuses.

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The same can be said of most players as well. The half orc barbarian that is dumber than a carnivorous ape somehow knows to make the left turn at Albuquerque and avoid moving through a threatened square.

On the whole it actually makes pretty logical sense that most creatures know to avoid AOO in a universe that has that as a fundamental law... it would pretty much be an evolutionary necessity.

Frankly anyone that played more than 4 hours of the Temple of Elemental Evil computer game has an advanced degree in Attacks of Opportunityology. My wife is so good at it, and trained my other players that we almost hand wave movement AOO away, on an open battlefield there is pretty much a way to avoid them, you have to control the battlefield to encourage people to engender them.

The feat is interesting to me, it strikes me as tailor made for a person with a reach weapon using it to move right next to a opponent on the edge of his or her reach. A spiked chain, Improved Trip/Combat Reflexes/Evasive Reflexes monkey could cut down on people withdrawing out of his range. Likewise a Scout could get some good extra damage from it.

hong said:

This is the same issue that people had with the 3.5 change that you couldn't charge through "allies". No problem: just consider everyone your opponent and declare you're overrunning them. That way they have the option of moving out of your way. Or something like that.

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I think this doesn't work. You cannot overrun someone and charge into someone else. The overrun is your attack for the round, so if you overrun an ally and he moves out of the way, you pretty much end up just moving through your ally.

But yes, I see your point.

It's not something that will come up unless people deliberately make the effort to exploit the system.

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That's true. This is not one of those things where the DM ends up saying "how the hell do you have AC 35?" If the player is doing this, it's obvious, and you can tell them to stop being silly.

A bigger problem is that, as mentioned, AoOs are so rare in the first place.

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Well, you might need Combat Reflexes for something else (Vexing Flanker immediately comes to mind). Or you might have a way of encouraging opponents to provoke: reach weapons, Karmic Strike, that stance that makes 5 ft. steps provoke...

And in a game where AoOs are rare, Evasive Relfexes is actually more attractive than Combat Reflexes: Combat Reflexes gives you more AoOs per round, which you probably won't get. Evasiver Reflexes gets you the option to do something new with your AoO, if someone should happen to provoke one.