Need Feedback On Possible Fantasy Variant Rules Set...

Flynn

First Post
It seems that everyone goes through a phase where they look at the rules and think to themselves, "What would I change if I could?" I am currently in the middle of a Grim Tales sword and planet campaign, but I expect that campaign to end before the end of the year (probably around its 18-19 month mark). I like some of what I've seen in True 20, but plainly, I like hit dice and rolling for damage, that kind of thing, and my gaming friends have demonstrated that they have a hard time with non-standard magic systems (i.e. no spells or spell slots). All in all, though, I'm beginning to get a mental picture of a new variant rules set to use for my next fantasy-based campaign. I would like to post my initial thoughts here, to see what people think and determine if this might be of enough interest to attract local gamers.

Here is a brief list of my current thoughts:
1. Streamline combat, using inspiration from True20's system, so that combat runs more quickly. This would mean less attacks per round at higher levels, for both PCs and monsters.
2. Prestige Classes are optional in the rules (see the DMG's intro on prestige classes for proof on that one), so remove them from this campaign. Instead, add the appropriate special abilities as feat chains, to empower character choice and variety.
3. Use Weapon Group feats. The response for these has been very good from all playtesters.
4. Use Action Dice in the manner described in Grim Tales. I've seen it in action, and it's a wonderful system. No complaints, and lots of compliments from players over the life of the GT campaign.
5. Offer the Battle Sorcerer as a core class, replacing the sorcerer.
6. Possibly trim down the core classes, and use feat chains to allow duplication of old classes, if desired. This is simply to prevent core class proliferation, and isn't a deal-breaker, though.
7. Modify the magic system somewhat, implementing a spontaneous system for divine casters as outlined in Unearthed Arcana, perhaps with an increase in spells known. (That was the only complaint we had in playtesting that aspect in a previous campaign.)
7a. Alternately, I could go with a magic system inspired by True20, where spellcasting is based on spell checks, and failure leads to exhaustion. However, instead of power checks, spells from a character's known spell list would be the effect generated by a successful casting check.
8. The use of negative CON score as the Dead value instead of -10, and the use of negative CON bonus as the lower end of the staggered range instead of 0 alone as staggered, as per Grim Tales. Also, using a Fortitude save (DC 20) to stop bleeding instead of a straight 10% roll.

I realize that this does change some of the basic nature of the game, and purists will have problems with it. However, is it too much? Would people still be interested in playing in such a game? If it's too much, what would need to be dropped from the above in order to bring it back to an "acceptable" level?

An inquiring DM wants to know,
Flynn
 

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Cannot comment on the battle Sorcerer, and I do Con +level for negative HP. However every thing there is a great idea. The only real problem you may encounter is how spell casters stack up to other classes. The Vancian system is very stable, you know how many spells of what level you get each day. Any system that has a variable, such as a D20 skill roll, has the possibility of swinging wildly in one direction or the other. Too many good rolls, and casters could shine above other PCs, too many bad rolls and the caster is out for the day after the first encounter. If you add in feats and skill + items, the first becomes more likely.
 


I wholeheartedly endorse the trimming of the core classes and feat chains to emulate PrCs and allow customization of characters. I find it silly that whole new classes need to be invented to change some aspects of an existing class (Rogue/Scout for example) but I do prefer the Warlock to Sorceror/Battle Sorceror. The Warlock is what the Sorceror always should have been.

I think that 2 base divine caster classes, one spontaneous (Shaman) and the other prepared (Cleric) would give lots of options for players. Spontaneous casters could go towards feat chains that would entail shapeshifting (for Druid/Beastmaster builds), prepared casters could become more martial and follow a more combat progression (Paladin/Holy Champion/Enlightened Fist). Heh, sign me up! :p
 

Right now, I've started looking at the generic classes from Unearthed Arcana, and breaking up the Spellcaster into an arcane and divine caster, so that there's the four basic classes represented. I'm going to go through and see how well the current core class concepts can be recreated using the current setup, and then I'll go from there, adding extra classes as needed.

Once the basic core classes are addressed to my satisfaction, I'll start looking at the optional core classes in the various splatbooks, and seeing how well they can be recreated conceptually under this approach. However, since I pretty much only use the core books for character creation, I'm not going to struggle as hard to get them fully integrated. (I haven't played with the Warlock, so it's not going to hurt my feelings if it doesn't make it. However, that's only my perception. If you want to run with this concept yourself, by all means, do with it as you will.)

In the end, ultimately, it's going to depend on what's playable, and what will get me players. If I can't get players with this streamlined approach, then it's not going to do me much good, is it? ;)

Thanks for the input so far. Please feel free to keep it coming!

Enjoy,
Flynn
 

I dub thee Basic D20 Fantasy...

I forgot to mention that this "Basic D20 Fantasy" system will essentially require a new rulebook document in its own right, that will be given to players as they join the game. I've started putting together pieces of the SRD, along with some personal thoughts, and even without spells, I'm looking at something that's currently around 90 pages, before being massaged to fit this new variant system. Working in the feat chains and the spell lists will make it a bit longer, maybe as much as double in length.

So, should I share it with the gamers as a PDF, or use Lulu.com to get printed and bound copies for them, once I'm done?

With Regards,
Flynn
 
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Wow! There are tons of spells in the SRD!

Yesterday, I started putting together the spells from the SRD, including the ones listed under Psionics and Divine, and came up with a separate document 130 pages long. (That's at two columns and 9 point font.) Wow! Never realized that there were that many spells in the SRD.

Okay, I suppose that the next order of business would be to cull the spell lists down a little, perhaps, and then add in the OGL spells that I've enjoyed in the past. I will definitely have to reread all the spells to make sure they still work with the streamlined combat and skill system I'm putting together.

Perhaps I should keep the spells separate in their own document? Or should I have some basic spells in the main document and have a separate grimoire for those really interested in playing the spellcasting classes?

If you were going to play in this campaign, which presentation would you prefer? One very large document with everything, or two documents (a campaign resource and a grimoire)?

Thanks, All,
Flynn
 

Before tackling the spells, though, I figured I'd hit the feat chains for classes. That seems to be coming along pretty well, and I think I like the results so far. Once I'm done with that section, I'll probably check with a few friends to see what their thoughts are on what I've put together so far. Volunteers are welcome, but I am looking for constructive feedback.

With Regards,
Flynn
 

Some of the class abilities are difficult to translate into feats, but I'm working on it. For example, the Animal Companion is relatively huge. (So is Summon Familiar, to be honest.)

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the criteria are that the SRD uses for determining what animals are on the list to be selected from, and at what levels? Is it based on CR, HD, CR and HD, or what?

Any input would be welcome,
Flynn
 

Have you seen the Unearthed Arcana generic classes variant? It's pretty good from what I hear.

That handles Familiars already; for animal companion replacement, I'd consider the Wild Cohort feat. Not quite as strong, but that's okay. :)

Cheers, -- N
 

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