[Bo9S] Archery schools

I said to Nifft that I was working up a couple of schools for archery/missileers, so here they are. Diamond Arrow is for snipers; Celestial Rain is for machine-gun archers.


EDIT: updated drafts are now at

http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/diamond_arrow.htm
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/celestial_rain.htm


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Diamond Arrow

The Diamond Arrow discipline is a little-known offshoot of the Diamond Mind school focusing on the bow and crossbow. The two schools share a similar meditative outlook, although their practical teachings are very different.

The Diamond Arrow discipline concentrates on harnessing the flow of one's life force to achieve complete control over oneself -- and since the bow is an extension of the self, this control enables masters of the school to take down even the mightiest of foes with but a single well-placed arrow. But such feats are secondary to the purpose of the school, which is introspective in nature: its deepest teachings emphasise that perfecting one's skill is simply a metaphor for the journey towards enlightenment.

The discipline's save DCs are modified by Wisdom, and its key skill is Concentration, as with Diamond Mind. Its favored weapons are the longbow, composite longbow, light crossbow and heavy crossbow. All of this school's strikes normally take a full-round action to complete.


1st level

darkwood arrow stance: stance -- all Diamond Arrow strikes deal x2 damage, you lose Dex bonus to AC
unbending arrow: strike -- +2d6 damage
keen sense of the archer: boost -- negate cover bonus to AC, reroll concealment miss chance
blindfire strike: boost -- gain reroll on missed ranged attack within 1 rd


2nd level

emerald initiate's attack: strike -- +5 damage
hammerblow shot: strike -- ranged bull rush
pierce the shadows: boost -- +20 insight bonus to next ranged attack, ignore concealment miss chance
refuge in truth: counter -- +4 AC, 50% concealment vs ranged attacks for 1 rd


3rd level

confound the blade: strike -- ranged disarm
sapphire spirit shot: strike -- +10 damage
eye of the archon: boost -- Conc vs Sense Motive check to deny Dex bonus to AC
shot of perfection: strike -- line attack, 60' range


4th level

iron arrow stance: stance -- all Diamond Arrow strikes deal x2 damage, req std action, you do not lose Dex bonus to AC
striking the heart: strike -- auto-threat
unveiling light of truth: strike -- no damage, dispel all illusions on target
distant touch of fate: boost -- negate up to -10 of range penalty


5th level

ruby spirit shot: strike -- +20 damage
shot of reversal: strike -- target reduced to 0 spd for 1 rd, Fort reduce to 1/2 spd
golem-smashing shot: boost -- Conc vs Sense Motive to bypass DR, hardness with strike
transcendent mind: counter -- immune to mind-affecting effects for 1 rd


6th level

smite the mountain: boost -- Conc vs Sense Motive to make strike as touch attack
diamond surge: strike -- +5d6 damage, target staggered 1d4 rds, Will half
fog-dispelling shot: strike -- no damage, dispel all mind-affecting effects on target


7th level

diamond spirit shot: strike -- +40 damage
ghost-cleaving shot: strike -- +5d6 damage, attack ethereal, incorporeal targets
perception beyond sight: boost -- blindsense 120', blindsight 30' for 1 rd


8th level

mithral arrow stance: stance -- all Diamond Arrow strikes deal x3 damage, reroll concealment, you lose Dex bonus to AC
shot of confronting doom: strike -- +10d6 damage, target paralyzed 1 rd, Will negates
transcendent gaze: boost -- true seeing for 1 rd
unstoppable solar's bolt: strike -- line attack, 120' range


9th level

shot of destiny inevitable: strike -- +50 damage, +2d4 Dex damage, Fort half



Celestial Rain

The Celestial Rain discipline teaches complete mastery of the bow as a deadly weapon. Speed is the key to archery, just as it is with melee combat; when an adept achieves mastery of this discipline, he becomes a veritable whirlwind of destruction, loosing arrows at a rate that no lesser warrior could seek to match. The outlook of Celestial Rain is relatively pragmatic, compared to other schools of the Sublime Way. Its practitioners tend to be rivals to those of the Diamond Arrow school, which takes a more mystical approach; this rivalry can be friendly or otherwise.

The discipline's save DCs are modified by Dexterity, and its key skill is Spot. Its favored weapons are the longbow, composite longbow, shortbow and composite shortbow.


1st level

agile archer's stance: stance -- +10 AC vs AoO due to ranged attack
fast dance of fire: strike -- 2 attacks with std action at -2
the weakest link: boost -- Spot check vs AC to negate up to 2 points armor/nat armor bonus to AC


2nd level

rhythm of air: strike -- 3 attacks with FRA at -4
field of quills: strike -- create difficult terrain, 4 5' squares, uses 1d6 arrows/square
hidden thorn attack: boost -- extra attack at -2
mighty arrows: boost -- +1d6 damage per shot within 30'


3rd level

indomitable archer's stance: stance -- generate ammunition magically, considered nonmagical, up to 5 missiles/rd
unfurling steel blossom: strike -- area attack, 10' radius burst
crimson arrow onslaught: strike -- area attack, 30' cone, 1 shot per target
avoidance of nemesis: counter -- force opponent to reroll ranged attack, at -4 penalty


4th level

celeritous volley: strike -- make full ranged attack with standard action
manticore attack: strike -- 2 shots on each of 3 targets within 60' cone
unrelenting aim: boost -- Spot check vs AC to deny Dex bonus to AC
giant-felling volley: strike -- make full ranged attack; if all hit, 1 Str penalty/shot for 4 rds, Fort negates


5th level

perfected archer's stance: stance -- treat bow/crossbow as 10' reach weapon for AoOs, threatening
rebuke of the heavens: strike -- make full ranged attack; if all hit, knock target prone, Ref negates
jade arrow flare: boost -- 2 extra attacks at -0, -5
pierce the carapace: boost -- Spot check vs AC to negate up to 5 points armor/nat armor bonus to AC


6th level

breath of the celestial dragon: strike -- area attack, 60' cone, 1 shot per target
wrath of the earth dragon: strike -- create difficult terrain, 1 5' square/lvl, uses 1 arrow/square, explodes for 10d6
reaving arrows: boost -- +2d6 damage per shot within 60'


7th level

tempest of thorns: strike -- beaten zone, 20' radius burst, attack anyone who enters or is in the area
greater manticore attack: strike -- 3 shots on each of 4 targets within 120' cone
arc of furious thunder: boost -- ranged Power Attack for 1 rd, max -IL atk/+IL dmg within 30'


8th level

unquenchable fire stance: stance -- generate ammunition magically, +1d6 fire damage
unfurling heavenly blossom: strike -- area attack, 30' radius burst, x2 damage per target
adamantine arrow flare: boost -- 3 extra attacks at -0, -5, -10, you are fatigued for rest of encounter
superb rending volley: strike -- make full ranged attack; if all hit, 2 Str damage/shot, Fort half


9th level

tears of heaven: strike -- 2 full attacks as full-round action, you are dazed next round, fatigued for rest of encounter


Full descriptions to follow.

Hmmm... interesting.

For adamantine arrow flare and tears of heavens, they look like Raging Mangoose and Time Stands Still, respectively. I suggest to remove the fatigued condition. Since both disciplines use projectile weapons, the fact that you shoot LOTS of arrows/bolts should be their main weakness, as if you run out of ammo... you're screwed.

On a side note, which class can access these maneuvers ? Swordsages and warblades aren't even proficient with the bow or the crossbow... only the crusader.

Full maneuver writeups. For simplicity, all maneuvers have prerequisite #maneuvers = 1/2 maneuver level. Eg to learn an 8th level Diamond Arrow maneuver, you must already know 4 other Diamond Arrow maneuvers.

All Diamond Arrow strikes require a full-round action to complete.


Diamond Arrow


1st level

Darkwood arrow stance
stance

You empty your mind of distractions and concentration on the task at hand. Your arrows fly straight and true to their target.

All Diamond Arrow strikes that you perform while in this stance deal double damage. As per the usual rules for multiplying damage, flat bonuses are multiplied but bonus dice are not. While in this stance, you lose your Dex bonus to AC.


Unbending arrow
strike

You make a single ranged attack, which gains a bonus +2d6 points of damage.


Keen sense of the archer
boost

Choose a target. You can ignore its cover bonus to AC if any, and reroll any concealment miss chance that may apply.


Blindfire strike
boost

If a ranged attack of yours misses, you can reroll the attack. You gain this benefit only on one ranged attack, which must be made before the start of your next turn.



2nd level

emerald initiate's attack
strike

You make a single ranged attack, which gains a bonus +5 points of damage. Note that this is multiplied if you are in any of the Diamond Arrow stances.


Hammerblow shot
strike

You make a single powerful shot that sends your foe reeling.

You make a bull rush attempt on an enemy that you hit with a ranged attack. You use the higher of your Wisdom and Strength scores on the oppposed roll, and you gain an additional +4 bonus to the roll.


Pierce the shadows
boost

You gain a +20 insight bonus to your next ranged attack, ignore concealment miss chance. You must make the attack before the start of your next turn to gain this benefit.


Refuge in truth
counter

You gain a +4 insight bonus to AC and a 50% concealment miss chance against ranged attacks for 1 round.



3rd level

Confound the blade
strike

Your precisely-aimed shot sends your foe's weapon flying.

You can make a disarm attempt on an enemy at range. This follows the normal rules for disarming, but you use your ranged attack roll instead of a melee attack roll. You gain the +4 bonus for using a 2-handed weapon.


Sapphire spirit shot
strike

You make a single ranged attack, which gains a bonus +10 points of damage.


Eye of the archon
boost

You reach out with your mind, confounding your foe's attempts to dodge your aim.

Make a Concentration check, opposed by your target's Sense Motive check. If you win, your target loses their Dex bonus to AC against your next attack, if it is made before the start of your next turn.


Shot of perfection
strike

With a single arrow, you cut a swathe through your enemies.

You attack all creatures in a 60' line starting from your square. Make a single ranged attack roll, which is then applied to all your targets.



4th level

Iron arrow stance
stance

With but a minimum of effort, you send your arrows into the hearts of your enemies.

While in this stance, all Diamond Arrow strikes deal double damage, and require only a standard action to complete (instead of a full-round action). You do not lose your Dex bonus to AC.


Striking the heart
strike

Your shot strikes with deadly precision. Make an attack roll; if you hit, your attack is automatically considered a critical threat.


Unveiling light of truth
strike

Your mastery of the Sublime Way enables you to pierce the veils of illusion that surround your foe.

Make a ranged touch attack. If you hit, you deal no damage; instead, you make a dispel check against all illusion effects active on your target. Use your initiator level for this check (maximum +20). Your arrow is still consumed in the attack as normal.


Distant touch of fate
boost

You raise your bow to the heavens and fire, trusting in fate to bring your arrow down on your enemy.

You can negate up to -10 points of penalty due to range on your next attack roll, if it is made before the start of your next turn. You do not gain an actual bonus to your attack.



5th level

Ruby spirit shot
strike

You make a single ranged attack, which gains a bonus +20 points of damage.


Shot of reversal
strike

You reverse the ki flow within your target, forcing it to a halt.

Make a single ranged attack. If you hit, your target is reduced to 0 speed for 1 rd. A successful Fortitude save (DC 15 + Wis mod) means it is reduced to half speed (minimum 5') instead.


Golem-smashing shot
boost

You can sense the critical weak points in a foe.

Make a Concentration check, opposed by your target's Sense Motive check. If you succeed, your next Diamond Arrow strike ignores its DR and hardness, if any. You must make your attack before the start of your next turn to gain this benefit.


Transcendent mind
counter

Your devotion to truth and enlightenment turns away those who would influence your mind.

You gain immunity to all mind-affecting effects for 1 round.



6th level

Smite the mountain
boost

Armour and scaly hide is no barrier to you. You reach out with your mind, finding the weak points in your foe's protection.

Make a Concentration check opposed by your target's Sense Motive check. If you succeed, your next Diamond Arrow strike can be made as a ranged touch attack. YOu must make your attack before the start of your next turn to gain this benefit.


Diamond surge
strike

Make a single ranged attack. If you hit, you gain a bonus +5d6 points of damage, and your target is staggered 1d4 rounds. A successful Will save (DC 16 + Wis mod) halves the duration, but not the bonus damage.


Fog-dispelling shot
strike

Make a ranged touch attack. If you hit, you deal no damage; instead, you make a dispel check against all mind-affecting effects active on your target. Use your initiator level for this check (maximum +20). Your arrow is still consumed in the attack as normal.



7th level

Diamond spirit shot
strike

You make a single ranged attack, which gains a bonus +40 points of damage.


Ghost-cleaving shot
strike

The wraith shrieks with rage and pain as your arrow tears into its ghostly form, leaving fragments in its wake.

You make a single ranged attack, which is considered a force effect (ie, it has the ability to hit and damage an ethereal or incorporeal target). If you hit, you gain a bonus +5d6 points of damage. Note that you gain no special ability to detect such foes.


Perception beyond sight
boost

You gain blindsense 120' and blindsight 30' for 1 round.



8th level

Mithral arrow stance
stance

All Diamond Arrow strikes deal triple damage, and you may reroll any miss chances due to concealment. You lose your Dex bonus to AC while in this stance.


Shot of confronting doom
strike

You make a single ranged attack. If you hit, you gain a bonus +10d6 points of damage, and your target is paralyzed for 1 round. A successful Will save (DC 18 + Wis mod) negates the paralyzation but not the bonus damage.


Transcendent gaze
boost

You gain the benefit of true seeing for 1 round.


Unstoppable solar's bolt
strike

Your arrow transforms into a mighty bolt of geomantic energy, clearing a path through your enemies.

You attack all creatures in a 120' line starting from your square. Make a single ranged attack roll, which is applied to all your targets.



9th level

Shot of destiny inevitable
strike

You make a single ranged attack, which gains a bonus +50 points of damage. In addition, if you hit, your foe takes 2d4 points of Dexterity damage. A successful Fortitude save (DC 19 + Wis mod) halves the Dex damage, but not the hit point damage. If you score a critical hit, the Dex damage becomes permanent ability drain.

Cool! I'll comment when I see the longer descriptions. I like many of the ideas -- the ones I don't immediately like will hopefully be cleared up.

May I request capitalization on the names?

Thanks, -- N

EDIT: And hey, while I was writing this, the write-ups appeared!

Celestial Rain writeups. Prereqs are as for Diamond Arrow.


Celestial Rain

1st level

Agile archer's stance
stance

You shoot your foes from point-blank range, avoiding the clumsy blows they attempt to land on you.

While in this stance, you gain a +10 dodge bonus to AC for AoOs provoked by your ranged attacks.


Fast dance of fire
strike

You move and shoot with alacrity.

With this strike, you can make 2 ranged attacks with a standard action at your highest BAB. Both attacks are made at a -2 penalty.


The weakest link
boost

You aim your arrows at the joints in your foe's armour, thus bypassing their protection.

Make a Spot check, with DC equal to your target's AC. If you succeed, you can bypass up to 2 points of armor/natural armor bonus to AC for 1 round.



2nd level

Rhythm of air
strike

You move with quick and graceful precision, loosing arrows with great speed.

With this strike, you can make 3 ranged attacks with a full-round action at your highest BAB. Both your attacks are made at a -4 penalty.


Field of quills
strike

You rain down arrows on the battlefield, creating a thicket of spikes that hinder your foes' progress.

As a full-round action, your arrows create difficult terrain. You can affect up to 4 5' squares, using 1d6 arrows/square.


Hidden thorn attack
boost

In the blink of an eye, you remove an arrow from its quiver and fit it to your bow.

As a swift action you gain an extra ranged attack, at a -2 penalty.


Mighty arrows
boost

You infuse your shots with your ki, dealing great damage.

Your ranged attacks for the round gain a bonus +1d6 points of damage. This bonus applies only to targets within 30'.



3rd level

Indomitable archer's stance
stance

You stand and fire a seemingly endless stream of missiles, causing your enemies no end of grief.

While in this stance, you can conjure ammunition magically, as if from thin air. Each round, you can call forth up to 5 missiles of a type suited to your weapon; these are considered nonmagical for the purpose of penetrating DR, but are affected by antimagic. Your missiles disappear 1 round after you create them, whether you use them or not.


Unfurling steel blossom
strike

You fire a single arrow into the air, which separates and transforms in mid-air into a cloud of deadly projectiles.

As a standard action you attack all creatures in a 10' radius burst, within your first range increment. Make a single ranged attack, which is applied to all targets (friend or foe). This attack requires only one arrow.


Crimson arrow onslaught
strike

You attack in a blinding flurry, sending a flood of arrows at your targets.

As a full-round action, you make one ranged attack on all foes in a 30' cone. Unlike unfurling steel blossom, this requires one arrow per target, and you can choose not to target friendly creatures within the area of effect.


Avoidance of nemesis
counter

A canny archer knows how to avoid the same weapon he uses.

As an immediate action you can force an opponent to reroll a ranged attack made on you, at -4 penalty. You can use this after knowing the result of the attack, but before damage is applied.



4th level

Celeritous volley
strike

You move and shoot in a graceful maneuver, loosing arrows while avoiding your foes' attacks.

As a full-round action you can make a full attack and move up to your speed. You can only attack with ranged weapons during this maneuver.


Manticore attack
strike

As a full-round action you can make 2 ranged attacks on each of 3 targets, at your full BAB. All targets have to be within a 60' cone starting from your position.


Unrelenting aim
boost

You track your foe, like a wolf stalking its prey. Despite his attempts to avoid your gaze, your arrows strike true.

Make a Spot check, with DC equal to your target's AC. If you succeed, your target is denied their Dex bonus to AC against your attacks for 1 round.


Giant-felling volley
strike

Your arrows form a deadly thicket, hindering and bleeding the life out of your enemy.

Make a full ranged attack on your target. If all your shots hit, your target takes a penalty to Strength equal to twice the number of shots you made, to a maximum of -10. You must hit with at least 3 shots to gain this benefit, which lasts for 4 rounds. A successful Fortitude save (DC 14 + Dex) negates the penalty.



5th level

Perfected archer's stance
stance

While in this stance, you can treat your missile weapon as a melee weapon with 10' reach for the purpose of AoOs and threatening. Thus you do not provoke AoOs for making attacks, but you can gain AoOs on enemies within 10' of you. Any AoOs you make are still treated as ranged attacks for the purpose of calculating your attack roll.


Rebuke of the heavens
strike

Your arrows strike home like a great barrage, knocking your target down or forcing it to take cover.

Make a full ranged attack on your enemy. If all your shots hit, your target is knocked prone. You must hit with at least 3 shots to gain this benefit. A successful Reflex save (DC 15 + Dex) negates the effect.


Jade arrow flare
boost

As a swift action you gain 2 extra ranged attacks. Your attacks are made at your highest BAB, at a -0 and -5 penalty on the first and second shot.


Pierce the carapace
boost

Make a Spot check, with DC equal to your target's AC. If you suceed, you can bypass up to 5 points of armor/natural armor bonus to AC for 1 round.



6th level

Breath of the celestial dragon
strike

As per crimson arrow onslaught, but affecting a 60' cone.


Wrath of the earth dragon
strike

Your arrows multiply in mid-air and rain down on the earth, creating a forest of shafts. Seconds afterwards, the earth erupts in a blast of geomantic energy as the ki flow from your maneuver is released.

As a full-round action, you fire your arrows to create difficult terrain. You can affect up to 1 5' square/IL, using one arrow per square. 1 round later, the ground within the squares erupts in showers of earth and stone, dealing 10d6 points of bludgeoning damage to anyone in the area. A successful Reflex save (DC 16 + Dex) halves the damage.


Reaving arrows
boost

You infuse your missiles with ki, gaining a bonus +2d6 points of damage per attack. This bonus only applies to targets within 60'.



7th level

Tempest of thorns
strike

Your arrows rain down on the battlefield, catching anyone beneath them in a hail of death.

As a full-round action, you can create a beaten zone as a 20' radius burst within your weapon's first range increment. Anyone who enters or is in the area is automatically subject to a ranged attack, at your full BAB. Creatures who were in the area during your turn are attacked at the start of their turn, while those entering the area afterwards are attacked at the moment they enter the are.


Greater manticore attack
strike

As per manticore attack, but you can make 3 attacks on each of 4 targets within a 120' cone.


Arc of furious thunder
boost

You draw back and release your bowstring with blazing speed and power, sending arrows arcing on their way with tremendous energy.

As a free action, you choose a number up to your IL. You subtract this number as a penalty from your ranged attacks, and apply it as a bonus to your ranged damage. This lasts until the start of your next turn. You only gain the bonus to damage against targets within 30'.



8th level

Unquenchable fire stance
stance

You call forth bolts of flaming energy and send them to strike your enemies.

While in this stance, you can conjure ammunition magically. Your missiles are considered magical for the purpose of penetrating DR and striking incorporeal foes. In addition, each missile deals a bonus +1d6 points of fire damage. Each missile is consumed immediately on use, or after 1 round regardless.


Unfurling heavenly blossom
strike

You fire a single arrow into the air. At the apex of its flight it multiplies into a cloud of deadly missiles, which rains doom on your foes.

As a standard action, you attack all creatures in a 30' radius burst within your weapon's first range increment. Make a single ranged attack, which is applied to all targets. Each hit deals double damage.


Adamantine arrow flare
boost

As a swift action you gain 3 extra attacks at your full BAB. Your attacks are made at a -0, -5 and -10 penalty for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd attack respectively. After using this maneuver, you are fatigued for the rest of encounter.


Superb rending volley
strike

Make a full ranged attack on your target. If all your shots hit, your target takes 2 points of Str damage per shot. A successful Fortitude save halves the damage.



9th level

Tears of heaven
strike

As a full-round action, you can make 2 full attacks with your ranged weapon. All your attacks must be ranged attacks. After using this maneuver, you are dazed for 1t round and fatigued for rest of encounter.

JiCi said:

Hmmm... interesting.

For adamantine arrow flare and tears of heavens, they look like Raging Mangoose and Time Stands Still, respectively. I suggest to remove the fatigued condition.

Click to expand...

Well, I'm actually of the opinion that time stands still is kinda broken. If anything, I'd apply the fatigued condition to that maneuver, as opposed to removing it from these. Still, you could go either way on this one.

Since both disciplines use projectile weapons, the fact that you shoot LOTS of arrows/bolts should be their main weakness, as if you run out of ammo... you're screwed.

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There's a couple of stances in Celestial Rain that create ammo for you. Diamond Arrow is about one-shot kills, so running out of ammo shouldn't be a problem. In any case, IME dedicated archers pick up handy haversacks and portable holes, and fill them with 100's of arrows, so ammo shortages tend to be rare.

On a side note, which class can access these maneuvers ? Swordsages and warblades aren't even proficient with the bow or the crossbow... only the crusader.

Click to expand...

Nifft has a ranger class that uses maneuvers (see his thread), which could use these. I'm tossing up whether to make a dedicated archer/scout class as well.

As a comment, doing strikes for Diamond Arrow was tricky. On the one hand, I wanted it to be competitive with a regular full attack (with Rapid Shot, haste and all the usual frills); on the other, too much and it becomes broken. I also didn't want to have 1-2 powerful strikes followed by nothing, since archers tend to be able to just full attack round after round, unlike the tanks.

The solution I've come up with is to leverage stances, so that they benefit strikes (but not anything else). As long as you're in a stance, you can do big damage with single shots; this also ties in with the idea of aiming carefully for maximum effect.

Both schools are rather sparse on counters, since, well, they're about ranged attacks. Gun-fu is about shooting people!

Some really good stuff here, but also some stuff I don't like.

There are some things here that need a duration. For example, Field of Quills is brilliant -- better than some of the things I wanted to do with Ranged Touch attacks hindering opponents -- but it's too big an area to last for more than 1 round. Personally, I like it as a low-level Counter (make 1 square Difficult terrain to stop a Charge or prevent a foe from taking a specific 5 ft. step, or something more creative), and then as a high-level Stance (a ring of Difficult terrain from 20 to 30 ft. out from your position).

I think we differ in valuing full attacks for archers vs. full attacks for melee guys. IMHO, a full attack is easier to get as an archer, and therefore is worth less; if a foe really doesn't want to feel your full attack, but you manage to set one up anyway, Time Stands Still lets him feel it twice. It's much harder to make an archer move before making an attack, so the value isn't as high -- archery isn't defended against by movement, it's defended against by cover, concealment, wind, and DR. (Especially DR.)

The one-shot-kill school already compensates for DR with its extra damage (much in the way that Power Attack + Charge compensates for DR), so I don't see the need to add a special DR penetration maneuver.

Some of the area attacks seem to need a range (the radius burst ones); the cone and line ones originate at your position, but the burst ones don't, do they?

More comments if/when I have time, and as soon as I'm done with the very time consuming Dancing Fox, I'll start pilfering without shame!

Thanks, -- N

Nifft said:

Some really good stuff here, but also some stuff I don't like.

There are some things here that need a duration. For example, Field of Quills is brilliant -- better than some of the things I wanted to do with Ranged Touch attacks hindering opponents -- but it's too big an area to last for more than 1 round.

Click to expand...

4 squares isn't really that much. It'll form a nice barrier between you and the bad guys, but they could probably jump over it or go around. It might be good if you were in a 5' wide corridor, but that's about it. I'd make the size bigger if anything, but then you'd start running out of arrows.

Personally, I like it as a low-level Counter (make 1 square Difficult terrain to stop a Charge or prevent a foe from taking a specific 5 ft. step, or something more creative), and then as a high-level Stance (a ring of Difficult terrain from 20 to 30 ft. out from your position).

Click to expand...

The stance thing sounds intriguing, but could be difficult to implement. Is it like an immobile thicket? How do you reestablish it after moving? Or is it like a circling ring of arrows, like a blade barrier? Now that would be cool.

I think we differ in valuing full attacks for archers vs. full attacks for melee guys. IMHO, a full attack is easier to get as an archer, and therefore is worth less; if a foe really doesn't want to feel your full attack, but you manage to set one up anyway, Time Stands Still lets him feel it twice. It's much harder to make an archer move before making an attack, so the value isn't as high -- archery isn't defended against by movement, it's defended against by cover, concealment, wind, and DR. (Especially DR.)

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean here.

I'd say that if the SOP for an archer is a full attack, that means if you're making stuff that's competing with it, it has to actually be competitive. Otherwise people will just keeping doing the same old, same old. The IH archer has the same problem: it has a bunch of cool-sounding tricks, but in the end, you're still usually better off just full attacking like you would in D&D. Which means the cool-sounding tricks end up being largely irrelevant.

The one-shot-kill school already compensates for DR with its extra damage (much in the way that Power Attack + Charge compensates for DR), so I don't see the need to add a special DR penetration maneuver.

Click to expand...

It's more thematic than pragmatic. Besides, it never hurts to do 10, or 15, or 30 points more damage.

Some of the area attacks seem to need a range (the radius burst ones); the cone and line ones originate at your position, but the burst ones don't, do they?

Click to expand...

? The range is within your 1st range increment.

hong said:

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Click to expand...

Your version of TSS (ranged-only) is 9th level, dazes you for a round, and fatigues you for the rest of the encounter. Significantly worse than TSS, which already allows exactly that, but isn't limited to only ranged attacks.

Your maneuver is strictly worse than TSS, and I can't tell why, since the whole reason TSS is soooo good is because full attacks are hard to get in melee: when you get one and initiate TSS, you instead get two. It's double the benefit for a situation that's not trivial to set up.

Archers are at the other end of the spectrum: ranged full attacks are easy. So why would I bother to use Tears of Heaven?

hong said:

? The range is within your 1st range increment.

Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't see that written. Could you point out where?

- - -

I misread field of quills; thought it was a 30 ft. radius area (!!!) which would be silly.

My idea for the stance would be a "lazy" ring -- if an opponent entered, you'd have the option to spend one unit of ammo to make that square difficult (as a free action, so you could use a lot of ammo this way).

The Counter would be high-ish level, since it could potentially ruin any foe's charge against anyone in the party. But that's cool IMHO.

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There is one cast-iron rule I see you violating: stances shall remain useful. There are some high-level stances that are strictly better than low-level stances of the same school, and that's not good, since you can't trade them out. Not sure exactly how to fix, since the school seems to rely on damage multiplication via stance. :\

Oh well, mostly good! And best of all, there's stuff I can steal!

Cheers, -- N