Alternate Turn Undead Rules

These rules are adapted from Complete Divine's alternate Turn Undead rules.

Turn Undead:
It deals 1d6/level damage to all undead within 30 ft of you. They get a Will save (10 + 1/2 class level + Cha modifier) for half damage.
Undead who are dealt damage equal to more than half their maximum hp are destroyed on a failed Will save.
Also, all living creatures (everything besides undead and constructs) are healed of 1d6/level of damage.
You can choose to exclude yourself and allies from this effect.

Heal/Commmand Undead:
It heals 1d6/level damage to all undead within 30 ft of you. Excess healing becomes temporary hit points for them.
Undead who gain enough to temporary hit points to exceed half their maximum hit points fall under your control. A Will save negates the control.
Undead who are healed of a number of points of damage equal to more than half their maximum hit points also fall under control of the character. A Will save negates the control.
Also, all living creatures are dealt 1d6/level damage, Will save for half.
You can choose to exclude yourself and allies from this effect.


What do you think? Has it been done before?

The CD alternate system is the system I use. Unfortunately, the only cleric in the group I DM is a cleric of Wee Jas and rebukes undead. That alternate system doesn't translate well to rebuking, so I use the standard system for that.

Seems a bit potent IMHO... maybe dropping it down to 1d6 per 2 Cleric Levels would be more in line... that said, anything is better than the archaic charts used in the PHB.

William Holder

The positive burst healing is a bit off the scale when balancing turning... Although it has the nice side effect of making turns useful in a non-undead campaign. Other than that, it seems neat. I like the healing doing temp HP, and the idea that if you give them lots of damage/healing it's like "HD <= 1/2 class level" is interesting.

So 1d6/two class levels would be better?

victorysaber said:

So 1d6/two class levels would be better?

Click to expand...

I think so... it's really an extra ability that should be a slight edge not the big guns. Usable... easy to remember... and scaleable what more could you ask for .

William Holder

I forgot to mention that if the damage from the turn attempt isn't enough to bring the undead down to 0, then it does nothing.

Okay.

If I remove the cleric's spontaneous "cure" and "inflict" spells, and leave it at 1d6, would it be overpowered?

1d6 per level is just too potent for turn/rebuke undead with the way you have it.

To use a mildly suboptimal example:
8th-level cleric, 16 Charisma, 2 copies of Extra Turning: 14 turnings per day = 112 d6 of mass healing and mass undead blasting per day, 8d6 per turning, save DC 17

Kind of optimal:
1st-level human cleric, 18 Charisma, 2 copies of Extra Turning: 15 turnings per day = 15 d6 of mass healing and mass undead blasting per day, 1d6 per turning (still enough to maim or destroy common skeletons and zombies), save DC 14

To use a much more suboptimal example:
2nd-level cleric, 13 Charisma, no copies of Extra Turning: 4 turnings per day = 8 d6 of mass healing and mass undead blasting per day, 2d6 per turning, save DC 12

The optimal one (barring high levels):
8th-level human cleric, 22 Charisma (cloak of charisma +2, and +2 from 4th/8th levels), 4 copies of Extra Turning, worn Phylactery of Undead Turning (DMG): 25 turnings per day = 300 d6 of mass healing and mass undead blasting per day, 12d6 per turning, save DC 20

So yeah, there are distinct problems with this "I heal all my buddies to nearly full health and horrendously maim or obliterate any undead nearby on my turn" thing.

Even if you fix it to 1d6 per 2 cleric levels, it'll still be considerably powerful, and possibly too powerful still (but maybe, just maybe, not). And you should probably eliminate the Phylactery of Undead Turning from your game when using your variant, and maybe even restrict the Extra Turning feat to 1 copy (rather than it's default version of unlimited copies possible).

House Rules are fun!

Destruction of the Undead.
Instead of making undead run and cower, turn attempts deal positive energy damage to all undead within a 30ft radius burst of the cleric. Turning undead is a standard action that deals 1d6 damage/cleric level to all undead within a 30ft radius burst of the cleric. The affected undead get a Will save (DC 10 + Cleric level + Cha mod) for half damage.
Evil clerics (or any cleric that can swap out spells for inflict spells) still Rebuke Undead as explained in the PHB. Paladins work just as you would expect, they turn undead as a cleric three levels lower.
Undead with turn resistance now treat that ability as Damage Reduction vs turning damage, at a rate of 2.5 per point of turning resistance. Thus, your average vampire with turn resistance of 4 would essentially have DR 10/- vs turning damage.
When this ability is used against incorporeal creatures, you do not have to roll a 50% miss chance; turning hits them automatically.
Under this variant system, a greater turning works like an empowered spell. After rolling turning damage, multiply the result by 1.5.
Under this system, a character with 5 ranks of Knowledge (Religion) increases the save DC vs his turn undead attempt by +1 (Clerics rebuking undead still gain a +2 bonus to their turning damage as per PHB).
Additionally, some turning feats work differently under this system.
Disciple of the Sun: You may spend one additional turn attempt to perform a greater turning.
Exalted Turning: Raise your effective cleric level by three for turning effects (+3d6 dmg, +3 DC)
Quicken Turning: You may spend one additional turn attempt to turn undead as a swift action. You may still make only one turning attempt per round.
Widen Turning: This feat replaces Empower Turning (Complete Divine). You may spend one additional turn attempt to double your turn radius.
The effects of Disciple of the Sun, Quicken Turning, and Widen Turning stack.

The above are adapted from an adaptation of the rules in Complete Divine made by someone in Force_User's group.