Secret doors...

I placed some secret doors in a dungeon I designed. They have very specific ways to open them (combinations).

The elves amongst the players demand that they get the standard chance to open the doors, as per the rules, but there's no way to explain in the role-playing sense how they figure it out other than blind luck.

I've been designing all the secret doors lately, and the elves are complaining that they have no advantage since I've been requiring roleplay to open the doors.

Any suggestions?

Are the doors hidden or just have "secret" combinations on them? I would rule that the elves get the normal chance to detect them but that they have to find the correct combination or "key" to open them. I just finished running an adventure where the party had to find a "Codebreaker" and then decipher 2 giant Ziggurats in order to get the right combination to enter the final area. Always make it more interesting imo.

Cheers,
E

The only thing the elves' senses allow them is an automatic Search check to find the doors. Nothing about finding out how they open. Their advantage is that they can actually detect the doors in the first place, without detailed searching.

If the doors rely upon hidden switches to work, then it's reasonable to extend the elves' abilities to finding those switches. If, however, the mechanism of opening has been discovered, and it is merely a matter of figuring out how to correctly use that mechanism, the elves' special ability avails them not at all.

Elves get an automatic search check, not an automatic Open Locks check, which is what is required to open this combination lock. (That, or puzzling it out in character.) In other words, they find a locked secret door.

transcendation said:

I placed some secret doors in a dungeon I designed. They have very specific ways to open them (combinations).

The elves amongst the players demand that they get the standard chance to open the doors, as per the rules, but there's no way to explain in the role-playing sense how they figure it out other than blind luck.

I've been designing all the secret doors lately, and the elves are complaining that they have no advantage since I've been requiring roleplay to open the doors.

Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

Ok, just so I understand. The players who have elven characters are suggesting that if you put the door to a safe in plain sight, they get no benefit and have to figure out the combination like anyone else? But if you hide the safe door (say, behind a picture) and the they find it, they automatically know how to open it?

Nope, don't think so...

Tell the players that elfs suck and they are being deliberately penalised for choosing such a stoopid race - add that you think all elf-lovers are a pack of pansies

then tell them just because you get a free search doesn't mean you can open the damn thing due to elf kewlness

transcendation said:

I placed some secret doors in a dungeon I designed. They have very specific ways to open them (combinations).

The elves amongst the players demand that they get the standard chance to open the doors, as per the rules, but there's no way to explain in the role-playing sense how they figure it out other than blind luck.

I've been designing all the secret doors lately, and the elves are complaining that they have no advantage since I've been requiring roleplay to open the doors.

Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

First off, just to be clear, secret doors are secret because you can't find them, not because you can't open them. And "An elf (but not a half-elf) who simply passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door can make a Search check to find that door." so by RAW you must offer them a search check when they pass within 5 feet.

So step one, is the door truly a secret door?
If yes, then is the ELF within 5 feet?

Then you can roll search against the difficulty of your door. Typical is 20, well hidden is 30.

If they succeed, then they find the door, but no clue as to how to open it.

If they are casting the spell Detect Secret Doors it will give you the trigger if you examine it long enough, but not the skill.

Out of curiosity, would you allow a Knock to open the specially locked door, or would you require that they solve the puzzle?

transcendation said:

The elves amongst the players demand that they get the standard chance to open the doors, as per the rules, but there's no way to explain in the role-playing sense how they figure it out other than blind luck.

Click to expand...

Can those players cite the rule for that?
I see the notice secret and concealed doors part in their race description, but not opening it. The standard chance is for a rogue to open locks, or to bash/destroy the door, get someone on the opposite side to open it etc....

I find asking for the specific rule that they are citing for can remove these 'misunderstandings' from the players and DMs.

Yeah, the rules and general consensus make it seem rather conclusive. They get a chance to perhaps notice the secret door if they make their Search check. Just because they know the door is there, doesn't mean they can get through it.