Leader Role: The end of the cleric?

Since the cleric will share role with the warlord does this spell the end of the cleric?

The warlord and cleric are both supposed to lead, heal, and support the party and it looks like they are pretty interchangable.

The concept of a cleric is rather unknown outside of D&D. The warlord is very much documented in fiction.

Example: There are no clerics in Lord of The Rings (unless you cram some of the characters in to that class). There are no clerics in Dragonlance 4th age either. However, warlords are common in both.

I like religion in my game but I don't feel the cleric is a must have. I think the cleric may just slide into oblivion - at least in my game.

Your thoughts on this?

Frostmarrow said:

I like religion in my game but I don't feel the cleric is a must have. I think the cleric may just slide into oblivion - at least in my game.

Your thoughts on this?

Click to expand...

Sounds good to me. It gets old playing religious characters all the time. Give me a secular option!

Frostmarrow said:

Since the cleric will share role with the warlord does this spell the end of the cleric?

Click to expand...

Hope so, but I suspect the cleric will be a better healer than the warlord, just as the class is currently a better healer than the druid, bard or paladin.

I've never liked the cleric. It's much too similar to the paladin. I'd prefer something closer to the cloistered cleric or WoW priest.

If other classes are able to do the cleric job just as effectively, this opens up some interesting possibilities.

Campaigns or parties that don't want a cleric can become viable and it would also be possible to have priest characters that aren't specialized in healing... after all, why should the priest of a fire god be a good healer?

I think that cleric is the most D&D-idiosyncratic class in the core rules. For all other classes, you can immediately come up with a couple of examples that will make clear what the class is all about to someone reasonably familiar with fantasy and mythology. Only for the cleric, you need to enter into a discussion of how it's equal parts Old Testament miracle worker, knight templar, romanticized pagan priest, spellcaster...

I like playing a cleric. I like the warrior-mage aspect: the versatility matched only by a well-learned wizard coupled with melee prowess. I like the insta-hooks: pick St. Cuthbert and you immediately get a default personality, goals, enemies.

But I don't think the concept is as central as the mechanics (the necessity of healing) make it. And I wouldn't mind at all if the choice between the cleric and something else was at least as valid as the choice between the fighter and the barbarian, rather than drawing moans of "aw, no cleric, it's gonna be ugly..."

Doug McCrae said:

Hope so, but I suspect the cleric will be a better healer than the warlord, just as the class is currently a better healer than the druid, bard or paladin.

I've never liked the cleric. It's much too similar to the paladin. I'd prefer something closer to the cloistered cleric or WoW priest.

Click to expand...

The design team have said that a party preferrably should have one of each of the roles; leader, controller, defender, and striker. So the question is no more "who is going to play cleric?" it's "who is going to play leader?".

Given that: Will most gamers opt to be warlord rather than cleric?

The cleric was not even a popular pick when it owned the support role. In competion with, what I suspect is going to be a popular class, the warlord will the cleric stand a chance. I don't think so.

The cloistered cleric is a nice concept but I don't think we will see it in tactical D&D.

Frostmarrow said:

So the question is no more "who is going to play cleric?" it's "who is going to play leader?".

Given that: Will most gamers opt to be warlord rather than cleric?

Click to expand...

This also ties into other unknowns.

What if there are more options that just warlord and cleric? Even assuming that there will only be two leaders in the PHB (a good bet, but not guaranteed), we don't know how fast other classes will be released.

Maybe 6 months into 4E we'll have several different options for leaders. We know we'll have Dragon magazine, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and a few splatbooks coming out. There is also the possibilities of free online content as well (although I suspect new classes won't be free).

Given how often I have to twist arms to get people to play clerics in my games, I suspect they will become one of the fringe character classes. Of course, so really cool mechanics to the class could change that.

Glyfair said:

This also ties into other unknowns.

What if there are more options that just warlord and cleric? Even assuming that there will only be two leaders in the PHB (a good bet, but not guaranteed), we don't know how fast other classes will be released.

Maybe 6 months into 4E we'll have several different options for leaders. We know we'll have Dragon magazine, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and a few splatbooks coming out. There is also the possibilities of free online content as well (although I suspect new classes won't be free).

Given how often I have to twist arms to get people to play clerics in my games, I suspect they will become one of the fringe character classes. Of course, so really cool mechanics to the class could change that.

Click to expand...

More leader options serves only to make the cleric's future look even more bleak.

However, I think you are right about cool mechanics though. To me it looks like the cleric will be less of a fighter (so not to overshadow the fighter) and by the same token will become less of a wizard.

Still, I do like the insta-hooks as mentioned by Jasin. Hopefully insta-hooks will be available to all classes.

Well, a lot of the problem with getting people to play clerics right now is they think that all clerics do is heal people. I think if they made clerics cool enough, it won't be an issue... or, people will be equally hesitant to play warlords, linking them with the classic cliche of a healer being boring.

It's also possible that the healer role will be detached from the 4 Roles.

For example we've heard that the Druid will be as effective a healer as the cleric but nobody expects the Druid to be a leader. He's usually thought of as filling the Controller role.

Conversely, the Warlord may not be the healer the cleric is, but will fullfill the other leader duties better, Or maybe is just better at Laying-the-smack-down.