D&D 4E I'm really confused on the new 4e defenses...

JVisgaitis · Oct 6, 2007

I've been trying to figure this out for the past 20 minutes. Granted, I just woke up and I might be missing something dreadfully obvious, but help me out.

Go and read the new Design & Development article here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/20071005

According to the article:
If your defending against a touch attack, you use your Reflex Defense (no armor).
If your flatfooted and you have no Dexterity bonus, use your Armor Class (no defense).

So where is your Defense that includes both Armor AND Dexterity?

Initially, I thought it might be like SWSE with attack rolls resolved against Reflex Defense, but IIRC there are no touch attacks in SWSE and wearing armor shouldn't help against touch attacks.

Help me out here. What am I missing?

Green Knight · Oct 6, 2007

When you’re surprised, you grant combat advantage, but you don’t need to look at a special AC on your sheet -- the normal number works fine.

That sentence is a bit confusing, but it sounds to me like when someone's caught flatfooted, they don't lose their Dex bonus to AC. Instead, the attacker gets some kind of bonus on his attack. So the Armor Class remains the same no matter what, and the Dex bonus counts towards it even when you're flatfooted.

Wormwood · Oct 6, 2007

JVisgaitis said:
Help me out here. What am I missing?

I believe the flat-footed condition no longer exists as we know it.

A surprised defender retains their full AC while the attacker gains a bonus.

At least that's my reading from this passage:

When you’re surprised, you grant combat advantage, but you don’t need to look at a special AC on your sheet -- the normal number works fine.

edit: scooped! That's what I get for wasting time quoting sources

Green Knight · Oct 6, 2007

edit: scooped! That's what I get for wasting time quoting sources

HAH! I WIN!

JVisgaitis · Oct 6, 2007

Green Knight said:
So the Armor Class remains the same no matter what, and the Dex bonus counts towards it even when you're flatfooted.

Hmm, I guess that would make sense. If that's the case there's another boon to having a high Dex score.

Green Knight · Oct 6, 2007

JVisgaitis said:
Hmm, I guess that would make sense. If that's the case there's another boon to having a high Dex score.

Nevermind that now there's a reason to ambush clumsy opponents. No real benefit to catching an opponent flatfooted when their Dex is only 10. Granting an attack bonus, though, rather then negating the opponents Dex bonus, means that it's equally advantageous jumping clumsy opponents along with agile opponents.

Sammael · Oct 6, 2007

Green Knight said:
Nevermind that now there's a reason to ambush clumsy opponents. No real benefit to catching an opponent flatfooted when their Dex is only 10. Granting an attack bonus, though, rather then negating the opponents Dex bonus, means that it's equally advantageous jumping clumsy opponents along with agile opponents.

Yup. This is more logical and easier to use in the game. However, it wasn't really possible in 3.x because there was a whole slew of abilities (starting with sneak attack) that were tied to the "Dex modifier to AC is denied" condition.

JVisgaitis · Oct 6, 2007

Green Knight said:
Nevermind that now there's a reason to ambush clumsy opponents. No real benefit to catching an opponent flatfooted when their Dex is only 10.

True dat. That was one thing that did always frustrate me as a player.

hazel monday · Oct 6, 2007

Green Knight said:
Nevermind that now there's a reason to ambush clumsy opponents. No real benefit to catching an opponent flatfooted when their Dex is only 10. Granting an attack bonus, though, rather then negating the opponents Dex bonus, means that it's equally advantageous jumping clumsy opponents along with agile opponents.

Neat. That's the first change I've seen so far that I'd actually classify as an improvement.

Olgar Shiverstone · Oct 6, 2007

Green Knight said:
Nevermind that now there's a reason to ambush clumsy opponents. No real benefit to catching an opponent flatfooted when their Dex is only 10. Granting an attack bonus, though, rather then negating the opponents Dex bonus, means that it's equally advantageous jumping clumsy opponents along with agile opponents.

Nice simplification that also make playing more fun. It also simplifies other mechanics. Sneak attack can now be "when you flank an opponent or he is unprepared or immobile (unprepared = hasn't acted in the first round), you get +2 to hit +xd6 damage."

D&D 4E I'm really confused on the new 4e defenses...

JVisgaitis

Explorer

Green Knight

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Wormwood

Adventurer

Green Knight

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JVisgaitis

Explorer

Green Knight

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Sammael

Adventurer

JVisgaitis

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hazel monday

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Olgar Shiverstone

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