Running APs via PbP

Hello all!

I am currently running the War of the Burning Sky via a PbP in a private forum and I wanted to comment on some of my experiences, get some feedback from you PbP DM Pros out there, as well as a player perspective about some things.

First, I am an experienced DM (since 1978), yet this was my first PbP game as a DM, and I think I must've broken some unstated PbP rule because it is my first PbP period! I have never played in one before, so this experiment was risky from the start.

Second, I read through a few here, cribbed together some general PbP etiquette notes and rules for my players and while it seems to work well, I think that I made some things difficult.

• I asked for players to use colors to represent different languages (and had a key for the language-color thing). If one PC knew how to speak the language of the NPC, then the NPC text was in english, otherwise it was in gibber-speak. The other PCs, who didn't understand the NPC, would metagame this as best possible, but in critical situations, failed miserably. Wrong colors were used by accident, or none at all, and it became a huge problem -- so we dumped that idea.
• There was always a flurry of private messages sent between DM and PCs, and it tended to lend itself to secrecy, hidden agenda, and other totally unnecessary intrigue. Granted I am not trying to dictate how the PCs interact or railroad them -- APs need some guidance -- I did tell them in advance that I didn't want to do this with the PCs plotting against each other. It was a slipperly slope, to say the least.
• Moving the story along was painfully slow, and the players would RP way more than normal. I tried to move the PCs from scene to scene, but they'd post about the most mundane things. Yet I would get some IMs or private messages that they felt that the pace needed speeding up.
• I kept combat easy, using DMGenie for the PC stats and that really helped, since we played it "diceless" (I would roll for them), and they would describe their actions one or two rounds at a time. That was one of the only parts that seemed to go well, but it's tricky to describe a round or two of combat and help keep the "scene" consistent with what was in my head with what was in their heads. Maybe I need to use more visual aids/maps....

Third, sometimes players (OK -- two specific players) would be lightning-fast posters and jump on every scene/item/goody/NPC before other posters because they didn't work or weren't as busy and always seemed to react before others. I had generally 1 post a day rule, but more was OK, and every other day was fine especially if the player was busy or travelling. The fast-players always demanded responses to their dialogue and wouldn't let the players who didn't post as quickly ever be first to speak in a social encounter. This is tough...

OK -- So I would love to get some feedback from everyone out there who has done this before... What are your good/bad experiences running/playing a PbP? How can I best deal with the situations noted above? What other pitfalls might I expect?

Also, what site seems to be best suited for PbP? Here at EnWorld? Private forums? Other sites that might have dice tools or other PbP aids?

Thanks in advance for any feedback -- it is greatly appreciated.

CC

languages

I use google language tools to translate and actually have stuff spoken in different game languages show up in posts using different languages. I then have a translation for the appropriate characters hidden in spoiler tags and rely upon PC honor not to look if they do not know the language.

German works well for abyssal in my experience.

I've never had any of these problems in my PBP games here at EN World, with the exception of the slow pace. But the very nature of PBP lends itself to very slow play. I've not seen these problems in any of the games that I play in, either (which is a lot).

The two PBP games I am running here an EN World at approaching 18 months run-time each, and for the most part are still running strong. They certainly bog down from time to time when I am really busy or my players are busy, but it always picks back up.

Were your players all new to PBP as well, or were they veterans? I think that may have something to do with running a successful game.

Rhun said:

Were your players all new to PBP as well, or were they veterans? I think that may have something to do with running a successful game.

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Yes, they were new to PbP. It is with a group that I used to F2F with before I moved cross-country.

catsclaw227 said:

First, I am an experienced DM (since 1978), yet this was my first PbP game as a DM, and I think I must've broken some unstated PbP rule because it is my first PbP period! I have never played in one before, so this experiment was risky from the start.

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Eh, I learn by doing. My first pbp game, the Midwood campaign, will be two years old in January. Everyone will have scaled the heights of fourth and maybe even FIFTH level at that point. (My goal is to have them around eighth or ninth by the time 4E is here, for a campaign finale adventure, but that's probably optimistic.)

I made some mistakes, and there are certainly adventures that work better in pbp than others, IMO, but if people can play chess by snail mail, any D&D game is doable via message board with a little elbow grease.

I asked for players to use colors to represent different languages (and had a key for the language-color thing). If one PC knew how to speak the language of the NPC, then the NPC text was in english, otherwise it was in gibber-speak. The other PCs, who didn't understand the NPC, would metagame this as best possible, but in critical situations, failed miserably. Wrong colors were used by accident, or none at all, and it became a huge problem -- so we dumped that idea.

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This is a player-specific issue. We alternately white out our text (it's a board with a light background they use) or just italicize it to show that it's in a different language. My players have been zealous about not "cheating" with things their characters wouldn't understand.

]There was always a flurry of private messages sent between DM and PCs, and it tended to lend itself to secrecy, hidden agenda, and other totally unnecessary intrigue. Granted I am not trying to dictate how the PCs interact or railroad them -- APs need some guidance -- I did tell them in advance that I didn't want to do this with the PCs plotting against each other. It was a slipperly slope, to say the least.

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Player-specific, but yes, that Private Message button is very tempting. If you run your own board, change the in-box settings to be MUCH larger -- you'll need it. And use the Save PM feature to store critical ones in a different folder.

As readers of my Story Hour know -- up to 10k reads as of today! -- my Midwood campaign is now split in two, with the heroic guys in their hometown and the schemers on the run across the world currently. Once they weren't mixed in together, a lot of the intrigue and PMs went away (although the fugitives still send the bulk of them). You might want to look at party composition as much as who your players are.

And, frankly, they may be telling you that they LIKE this style of play. I'd have a conversation with them about this.

Moving the story along was painfully slow, and the players would RP way more than normal. I tried to move the PCs from scene to scene, but they'd post about the most mundane things. Yet I would get some IMs or private messages that they felt that the pace needed speeding up.

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Well, this is a pbp problem in general: RP stuff works much better than action and dungeon crawls, partially because you can just do the RP stuff at work at the spur of the moment, without (much) referring to charts and stats. And because of the slow pace, dungeon crawls are particularly awful, since the group may be in a single room for days, weeks or even months and even the coolest rooms will lose their charm in that time.

I really recommend urban and RP adventures to dungeon crawls. If I had to do it over again, my current Vock Row pbp game wouldn't be in a dungeon at all. I'm going to ride it out until the end, though, and then have them do RP-based stuff from here on out, with mini-dungeons of three rooms or less at most in future.

I kept combat easy, using DMGenie for the PC stats and that really helped, since we played it "diceless" (I would roll for them), and they would describe their actions one or two rounds at a time. That was one of the only parts that seemed to go well, but it's tricky to describe a round or two of combat and help keep the "scene" consistent with what was in my head with what was in their heads. Maybe I need to use more visual aids/maps....

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This is a muscle you'll get better at exercising as time goes on.

Third, sometimes players (OK -- two specific players) would be lightning-fast posters and jump on every scene/item/goody/NPC before other posters because they didn't work or weren't as busy and always seemed to react before others. I had generally 1 post a day rule, but more was OK, and every other day was fine especially if the player was busy or travelling. The fast-players always demanded responses to their dialogue and wouldn't let the players who didn't post as quickly ever be first to speak in a social encounter. This is tough...

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Talk to the players or, better yet, split the fast posters into their own group and let them go at their own speed. I'm doing that in my current Midwood game, and the fast guys are now almost done with their track, while the slow guys are still at the start of theirs. But the fast guys are OK with that, since they got to go as fast as they want -- including lots of fast combat, for pbp -- and are OK with just kibitzing for the next few weeks.

Also, what site seems to be best suited for PbP? Here at EnWorld? Private forums? Other sites that might have dice tools or other PbP aids?

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Get a wiki. It's invaluable having character sheets and notes available 24/7.

I like private forums, personally. Everyone has PMs, and we can sprawl over as many threads as we like and keep older archived adventures in a subforum.

You sound like you're doing fine to me. It's just the shifting of expectations -- that everyone does with pbp, if they're successful at it -- that you're going through currently.

If I ran a PbP, I would probably make it combat-light, and would pace it like writing a story. Only detail stuff that is important, and warn the players that there will be some rails, and make it clear to them when they are on or off the rails. Cut out the fluff and focus on the stuff you'll enjoy most.

Like, I've seen three PbPs for WotBS now, and each time, after the amount of time spent on just one combat, I've wondered why in the world the GM felt like he had to actually run the encounters in the streets, where you're saving people from fires and such. Just write that this stuff happens, and get on to the more plot-relevant stuff.

Oh, and for dialogue, if I ran a game, I would not allow anyone who used archaic speech patterns, unless they did it damned well. Encourage economy of language. Your character keeps his mouth shut unless he's saying something important, or something entertaining. No need for internal monologues, or friendly chit-chat. We get down to business, and talk like real adventurers thrust into these crazy sorts of situations would talk.

"Look yonder, brave dwarf. It appears the gods have favored us with a horde of enemies with which to do battle. Let us lay into them and show them the power of heroism."

vs.

"Sh*t, orcs! Don't let them surround you!"

I much prefer the latter. I don't get to elaborate speechifying in my in-person roleplaying, so I wouldn't use it in PbP.

See the latest post in my Story Hour why an occasional speechifying post is very, very worth it.

This is all great advice. I like the Wiki Idea for PCs, Items, Adventure Locales, etc.

And RangerWickett, you are spot on about the grind of being too granular in the combat encounters.

Whizbang Dustyboots said:

See the latest post in my Story Hour why an occasional speechifying post is very, very worth it.

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You mean the Midwood one, or one of the Ptolus PbPs?

The Midwood one, sorry. The others aren't cleaned up and Story Houred yet (although they will be once they wrap). It's all one (edited) post by one player, posted midway through the marquee battle in The Dragonfiend Pact.