Pathfinder 1E Paizo, Kobolds, Aliens, and Saw

Paizo does a great job of taking cultural references and using them to remind us what D&D monsters really were before they became stat-blocks.

Paizo's take on Goblins in Rise of the Runelords 1: Goblins as little weak green humans? No. Goblins as Labyrinth-style Monsters under the Bed, mad, bad, and funny in a black-humor kind of way? Yes.

Paizo's take on Ghouls: Just another undead? No. Children of the Corn? Yes.

Paizo's take on Ogres: Big orcs? No. "You got a purty mouth," Deliverance and The Hills Have Eyes? Yes.

What I am getting at is that D&D "names and stat-blocks" approach takes something out of monsters, something of the fear and horror of these things. Paizo remembers what makes monsters monsters.

SO.

I am trying to do the same thing in a new campaign I am developing. The first adventure is an attack on a Kobold lair.

Kobolds. Not scary. Little lizards meant for first-level adventures to cut their teeth on before forever disappearing? No. So I'm looking for inspiration. Here's what I have. I'd appreciate whatever thoughts you may have in addition.

Rule 1: Never state what a monster or an effect is. I am not calling them kobolds. Nobody uses that word. The players don't know what the "things" are.

Rule 2: Cultural resonance. Aliens. The movies. Those lizards were scary. Not because they were unstoppable. In the second movie they got wasted left and right. No, they were scary because they were skittery, because they came out of the walls, because they were fast and brutal, because they dismembered you one by one.

So far my kobold lair is Giger-decorated. The walls are the bones of victims. Faces are built into the walls. The kobolds pack people away in the walls, with only their heads sticking out, and save them for later. The most recent part of the lair is built out of new dripping corpses, plastered into the walls. The old parts of the lair are age-blackened bones.

Cultural resonance 2: the Saw movies. Kobolds are trap-masters. What if the traps were not just war-style booby traps. Those aren't scary, they're comprehensible. A 10' pit is threatening, but not intrinsically terrifying.

A kobold trap should be terrifying. The trap *starts* when you are already trapped. Once you are trapped you should have a chance to escape. And it should nearly not work. And you should leave a limb behind. And the kobolds should appear later, eating it.

Any thoughts? Additions? Other monsters that would benefit from this treatment?

cheers,

Carpe

Well the "scythe"-trap in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade was something I have always had in mind when I have designed kobold-lairs. Just my .02

Carpe DM said:

What I am getting at is that D&D "names and stat-blocks" approach takes something out of monsters, something of the fear and horror of these things. Paizo remembers what makes monsters monsters.

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Paizo is just doing what any and every GM should be doing: taking the toolbox Monster Manual monsters and giving them a unique spin that makes them fit better into the world they've designed. The kind of stuff they're doing with Varisia is the same thing every GM should be doing with their own homebrew world.

WayneLigon said:

Paizo is just doing what any and every GM should be doing: taking the toolbox Monster Manual monsters and giving them a unique spin that makes them fit better into the world they've designed. The kind of stuff they're doing with Varisia is the same thing every GM should be doing with their own homebrew world.

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Yep. Any ideas about how to do that well with Kobolds?

One thing I noticed about Paizo's Goblins - they're Gremlins. In the movie Gremlins, they're evil nasty little critters, but also funny in that black humor sort of way.

But Wow. I like what you're doing with kobolds. See, Kobolds are my favorite race, so I've put some thought into them; I often use them as skilled trapsmiths and spelunkers for Thieves guilds, I'd love the opportunity to play them, etc.

I'm really curious what you're going to do with their culture, behavior or personality. Goblins do have personality, so I'm wondering how you're going to handle that.
[sblock]1) Napoleon complex. The whole world picks on them, because they are small and weak. So they have a chip on their shoulder the size of mountains. They hate everything that isn't another kobold, simply out of distrust and distate.

2) Survivalist. You know those guys who stockpile weapons, live in bunkers, and fear the government is going to take their guns away? Change out "Government" with "Anything bigger than me" and that's a kobold. They'll be damned if anyone's going to come into their territory and take their nest.

3) Fear of melee. A kobold in melee is a dead one. Stay out of the fight - stay just out of sight and snipe, then run away. Use traps. Use anything on your side. Exploit everything. Weaken the foe until they die or are so close to death they aren't a danger anymore.

4) Every Kobold Helps the Nest. The nest is all important, beyond the individuals that make it up. This is sort've like a communist/socialist idea; everyone works for the betterment of the Nest, and the collective of kobolds can fight off larger foes. If you're greedy, you weaken the resources of the Nest, meaning that you weaken your chances of survival.[/sblock]
I fully anticipate your kobolds to have murder holes in the ceilings, where they drop jars full of angry snakes or burning oil down on the heads of their enemies. Then later, a trap that sounds like a kobold is moving around in the wall, only to direct everyone's attention to that side so that they can move up from behind.

Another thought, regarding the traps: I imagine kobolds know that there are people with Disable Device on hand. So, they probably have designed a trap under an easily seen/disarmable one. You disarm the top one - which arms or unleashes the one underneath.

I heard once about an exciting session that a group had where they were in a kobold nest, and they had set off a pit trap. No problem - until they crossed it, and here come the kobolds - they had rigged up a portable wall on wheels, covered in spikes, and were pushing it down the tunnel; it filled the entire tunnel and it was herding the party towards the nasty pit trap.

Rechan said:

One thing I noticed about Paizo's Goblins - they're Gremlins. In the movie Gremlins, they're evil nasty little critters, but also funny in that black humor sort of way.

But Wow. I like what you're doing with kobolds. See, Kobolds are my favorite race, so I've put some thought into them; I often use them as skilled trapsmiths and spelunkers for Thieves guilds, I'd love the opportunity to play them, etc.

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Thanks! You make some great suggestions! I've been trying to work the excellent points you make about Kobolds into something new. Murder holes are something that rational creatures do, things that are "like us." That can be reworked as hands that grab you through the floor and suddenly one party member is just gone. The only sounds are rending and tearing. That has the effect of a murder hole (using pre-prepared area for asymmetric war), but the psychological impact is different.

One thing I'm struggling with. A creature that knows it is weak is not scary. Facehuggers weren't that much stronger than a civilian in the Aliens movies. But they weren't afraid. Swarms of things are terrifying, even if the thing is "weak."

In fact there is something cool about the weakness of Kobolds within a survival horror setting. The PCs are going to be mad and scared and furious by the time they get to the place where they can really wreak havoc. It's that sense of release of firing up the gatling gun at the Aliens. Time to hurt someone.

Carpe DM said:

Thanks! You make some great suggestions! I've been trying to work the excellent points you make about Kobolds into something new. Murder holes are something that rational creatures do, things that are "like us." That can be reworked as hands that grab you through the floor and suddenly one party member is just gone. The only sounds are rending and tearing. That has the effect of a murder hole (using pre-prepared area for asymmetric war), but the psychological impact is different.

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I'm curious how you're going to reflect this in game. I mean, are you just going to drag one of the players under the ground and engage in single combat, or?

Maybe they use a murder hole in the ceiling to drop a garrot/noose down over someone's neck and pull them high enough so that their head is in the hole, in poking range?

One thing I'm struggling with. A creature that knows it is weak is not scary. Facehuggers weren't that much stronger than a civilian in the Aliens movies. But they weren't afraid. Swarms of things are terrifying, even if the thing is "weak."

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In the Paizo module, the goblins weren't confident, weren't walking tall, until they had numbers on their side. When there is larger numbers, there's confidence. But I imagine a kobold in your world isn't scared of melee - it just knows its strength. Or rather, "My job is to hit them and run away, so they follow me into a new trap." Hit and run for confusion - think Vietcong in their tunnels.

At least in D&D, kobolds are usually just the evil version of Gnomes. Both live in the forest, but if you stumble into a gnome's home, you'll end up five miles away, naked and painted blue; if you stumble in a kobold's home, you get torn to shreds.

Depending on how technological you want them, or how devious: force the party into wading through a liquid to proceed forwards. Don't specify as to what it is. When they're wading through, have a kobold use magic to counter their magelights. When the PCs strike up a torch, they find themselves wading through some flammable liquid mixed with water. Whoosh.

goblins aren't green to start with.

Rechan said:

I'm curious how you're going to reflect this in game. I mean, are you just going to drag one of the players under the ground and engage in single combat, or?


In the Paizo module, the goblins weren't confident, weren't walking tall, until they had numbers on their side. When there is larger numbers, there's confidence. But I imagine a kobold in your world isn't scared of melee - it just knows its strength. Or rather, "My job is to hit them and run away, so they follow me into a new trap." Hit and run for confusion - think Vietcong in their tunnels.

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Good points. Well, as of this point, I was thinking of grappling the party member with the lowest strength, dragging him / her down. But mechanics doesn't solve the gameplay issue, does it? Splitting up is a horror trope for a reason. But what is terrifying in a movie is boring in a game. You either make everyone wait while you resolve the combat, or you take that person out and they don't get to play until the issue is resolved.

Maybe one thing to do is to make sure the other people have something dramatic to do. Like when one person is trapped in an avalanche, the others get to dig frantically.

Ooh. Yeah. Lights and darkness. Great point! Darkness is a big big deal when you're trying to scare folks, but D&D turns it into a nuisance. First, how can you turn off the lights, or turn down the lights, in those tunnels?

Well, one thing is you can limit how far light goes. Curving, claustrophobic tunnels. Make 'em small. The PCs scrabbling on hands and knees through bone-walled tunnels, with things skittering right by their ears. Then, three people back, Amy screams and goes through the floor.

Glee.

A new name does wonders. The heroes in my campaign heard half-believed rumors of "mountain devils." Then they were ambushed by them. I used off-kilter and vague descriptions to make them seem fearsome. The players were shaking in their boots. To this day they fear them, despite being high level PCs.

But in the end they were just ogres. I never used the word ogre, and I played up the fear factor in npcs.

If it were me, I'd have npcs refer to kobolds as Tunnel Demons or Razorfiends or something.

Edit: also I'd recommend changing their appearance at least slightly, to help throw off those players prone to meta-game identifications.

Even better, replace or add some minor abilities, quirks, or equipment. An example (admittedly off-the-cuff) would be a 1/day darkness ability that could be described less like a spell and more like: "the shapeless black rags you had thought were the being's tattered clothing tear themselves apart, filling the air with an eeriely silent cloud of tiny shadows." The heroes won't know at first if this is a symbiotic creature, a magic item, etc.