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What should WOTC do about Golden Wyvern Adept?

What should WOTC do about Golden Wyvern Adept and similarly named feats?

  • Remove the fluff and rename them so they work for any campaign

    Votes: 32 17.8%
  • Move the fluff to optional sidebars and rename the feat so they work for any campaign

    Votes: 65 36.1%
  • Rename them so they include a descriptive and functional name together

    Votes: 17 9.4%
  • Do not change them, I like occasional fluff names in my core game mechanics

    Votes: 33 18.3%
  • I do not care what WOTC does with the game mechanic names, it won't affect my game

    Votes: 33 18.3%

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Najo

First Post
Obviously Golden Wyvern Adept is causing a huge amount of debate right now. As we are getting closer to 4e's print time we need to get WOTC to look at both sides of the debate and have a clear descision on where to go with these sort of fluff+crunch core materials. I know there are lots of discussion on this matter slipping into every thread, but this could be the last chance to change the feat (if that is what most D&D players want) and get the attention of WOTC with a poll here.

For those on the fence or in the dark, here is what the arguments are:

Golden Wyvern Adept is good...
1) Because it gives DMs with little time on their hands instant fluff with no work.
2) It allows DMs to fill in the blanks with artsy names and be inspired creatively.
3) It gives players some direction and a feeling of history by rules they choose
4) It defines a core D&D mythology and story

Golden Wyvern Adept is bad....
1) Because it shoe horns the campaign setting to include golden wyvern adepts
2) It doesn't describe what the feat's rules actually do and is thus counter-intuitive to the other game mechanics
3) It gives players a way to mess with a DMs campaign by bringing in fluff they don't want
4) Renaming the feat to remove its fluff is messy
5) DMs can't attach the feat easily to their own wizard orders
6) Official campaign settings are going to have trouble working around feats like this, espcially settings like Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape, Birthright etc. where a "generic" order with a sterotypical monster doesn't belong like that.
7) 3rd Party publishers will have trouble pluging on even more so than they did with the named spells from greyhawk.
8) Golden Wyvern Adept starts a trend of naming feats in confusing and campaign damaging ways. Once this form of feat naming begins, it just flows over into all the sourcebooks and SRD material creating a huge list of frustrations for DMs who do not want it in their games.
9) Feat names like this encourge lazy game mechanic naming.
10) Fluff with no meaning behind it is bad, empty fluff calories. It is to subjective to make a standard that is used.

Overall, there is more reasons not to keep names like golden wyvern adept. I would like to see your opinion on what WOTC should do.
 

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Patlin

Explorer
Simply rename it to something that says what the feat does. "Spell Shaping Adept" for example.
 

Counterspin

First Post
I think the school names are for grouping similar feats together in a useful way. If Golden Wyvern is used as a feat prefix, you get the enhanced range, increased area, different shape feat and all the others all in one place, rather than scattered throughout the feat list. That's useful to me in a way that Shape Spell, Extend Spell, and Increase Range wouldn't be. So bring on the Golden Wyverns and whatever else.
 

timbannock

Hero
Supporter
Patlin said:
Simply rename it to something that says what the feat does. "Spell Shaping Adept" for example.

Yes.

Vanilla D&D can be bad, but feats are not something that your characters talk about (at least not in-character), so they should not have colorful names that don't tell you what they do. They are a game mechanic, pure and simple, so make it logical and informative.

Magic items, on the other hand, should have kewl namez. But that's because they are an "in-game" thing...characters might talk about their magic swords. But not their feats. Or skills.
 

Hella_Tellah

Explorer
I voted "Rename them so they include a descriptive and functional name together," just because I prefer easy-to-remember mechanics. To that end, I prefer "Leap Attack" (double damage on a charge, got it) to "Shock Trooper" (something to do with lightning? Let me look it up).

That said, if the Golden Wyvern tradition is all about advanced targeting techniques, I'm fine with the name. I've got a player who's taking the "Temple Raider of Olidammara" class, even though she's a kitsune messenger of Inari, the kami of rice. Now, if I had no idea what Olidammara was all about, I'd hate the name, and I'd post about it on the forums (take that, WOTC!). As it is, I know that Olidammara is a roguish Greyhawk god, so I know it's a prestige class for a rogue with some divine abilities. The name is perfect, much better than "Divine Thief."
 

mhacdebhandia

Explorer
It doesn't really bother me, but I guess I would prefer "Golden Wyvern Spellshaping" to "Golden Wyvern Adept", so let's have a flavourful and descriptive name.
 

Intrope

First Post
Hella_Tellah said:
I voted "Rename them so they include a descriptive and functional name together," just because I prefer easy-to-remember mechanics. To that end, I prefer "Leap Attack" (double damage on a charge, got it) to "Shock Trooper" (something to do with lightning? Let me look it up).

That said, if the Golden Wyvern tradition is all about advanced targeting techniques, I'm fine with the name. I've got a player who's taking the "Temple Raider of Olidammara" class, even though she's a kitsune messenger of Inari, the kami of rice. Now, if I had no idea what Olidammara was all about, I'd hate the name, and I'd post about it on the forums (take that, WOTC!). As it is, I know that Olidammara is a roguish Greyhawk god, so I know it's a prestige class for a rogue with some divine abilities. The name is perfect, much better than "Divine Thief."
I'd have to disagree: Leap Attack is a *bad* name--it's name has zilch to do with charging at all. (Something like Mighty Charge would be better).

But the general principle holds: feat names ought to be at least related to what the feat does; Power Attack, Dodge, Precise Shot -> good! Voice of Three Thunders -> bad!

Admittedly, I don't mind the classes having odd names--I don't have to refer
to the class names in play at all, so it makes no difference. To take an example from Saga, either Force Fighter or Jedi would work as a class name. Either way, it's a force-slinging, saber swinging combat machine; and I can use it for a character whether it's a member of the Jedi order or just some dude.
 


Geoff Watson

First Post
Counterspin said:
I think the school names are for grouping similar feats together in a useful way. If Golden Wyvern is used as a feat prefix, you get the enhanced range, increased area, different shape feat and all the others all in one place, rather than scattered throughout the feat list. That's useful to me in a way that Shape Spell, Extend Spell, and Increase Range wouldn't be. So bring on the Golden Wyverns and whatever else.

The problem with that is, like the Expert/Exceptional/Legendary Artisan feats in Eberron, players would have a hard time remembering which one is which.
So is "GW Adept" the spell shaping feat or is it "GW Master", or "GW Expert", or "GW Novice", etc?

Geoff.
 


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