Why I hate puzzles

Just some general venting here, but hopefully it will give some DMs food for thought when designing challenges.

Currently in two games I'm involved in our parties are facing puzzles of one sort or another. One of them involves following prophetic writings to locate an artifact. The other entails interpreting some writings to find a way to open some secret doors.

I personally dislike puzzles of these types because they both rely on the ability of the players, not the characters, to solve the challenge. My GMs could have the PCs roll numerous Intelligence or Knowledge checks to try to work their way to the answer, but that would quickly become tedious. And how do you decide what DC to set each check at? If the rolls consistently fail, how do you progress the plot?

Puzzles can also drive characters away from the plot. I've tried a little GMing myself, using an adventure that included a puzzle. The players roleplayed that their characters were frightened by what happened when they failed to understand the puzzle solution, and they gave up trying to solve it, which meant that they couldn't progress in the adventure. I didn't know what to do to help them out of their predicament aside from telling the players what the puzzle solution really was.

How can a GM help characters solve puzzles without running into any of the pitfalls I've described above? What if you've given what you think are adequate hints and the players still don't get it?

Yes, D_K, I'm looking at you.

Combat does not solely rely on the ability of the characters either. The Player makes all the tactical decisions, which may or may not be the best courses of action.

For a puzzle, I'd let the players hash it out and then make an ability/skill check to confirm or reject their solution, along with some hints (e.g. "you made the DC check? Okay, your character dismisses that solution because he's sure that the colors of the painting are significant in some way").

Failing consistently doesn't have to mean that the players don't solve the puzzle; just make their arrival at the solution take longer (just like "taking 20"). Similarly, a player might be allowed to take 10 and get a quick hint from the DM, or take 20 and get a better hint.

Walt

I'm pressed for time right now, but right off the top of my head: do not make them roll. Just give the character with the highest Int score (or related Knowlege sklill) a clue to solving the puzzle; i.e. if every 4th letter of a phrase holds the key, tell the character that he believes he can almost see a phrase hidden in the writing. If they cannot solve it, but you need to continue, quickly add a secret passage that somehow bypasses the puzzle (but reduce the rewards according of course). Bardic lore can help. If they are not pressed for time seek a sage for advice. There are more ways of course, but I am running late.
Good luck!

I faced a similar situation as a player. The DM created a little riddle that required that the players know the meaning of an old English word. We went back and forth on it for awhile and ended the session with us unable to find the solution.

When we came back the next week no one had the answer so our characters had to leave the dungeon and ask a high-level bard in a nearby town about the riddle. He, of course, knew the answer right away.

Basically the characters were punished for the player's lack of knowledge. The punishment wasn't much--just a little wasted time--but it definitely felt like the adventure hit a bump in the road.

I think that puzzles are okay for adventures as long as they are
1. fairly easy for the players to solve (i.e. don't require knowledge that a reasonably educated person would not know)
2. allow intelligent or wise characters to get insight in the form of hints from the DM if the players stumble
3. rely on information from the game world (maybe references to characters the PCs have encountered or that appeared in histories the PCs have heard)
4. there is an in-game method for resolving the puzzle and/or an alternate route around the puzzle

This is a lot of work for the DM, but I think it could be rewarding.

From the other side of the coin....

I designed a puzzle for a group in my campaign over 15 years ago... The group could never solve it. A number of campaigns have ended and restarted, and the puzzle remains.

Every once in a while it comes up... either by an NPC or the players themselves... And the group thinks about it for a while, and occasionally go back to the site to look over the clues...

One day, they might figure it out. Or maybe not.... but they remember it. What lies beyond the door? Who knows, I never even got that far, but the players always bring it up at holiday parties, trying to get me to tell. I just grin...

It's just one of those things..... if they can't get past it... oh well. It will remain one of those mysteries which make the campaign feel more.... real.

Aluvial

Aluvial said:

From the other side of the coin....

I designed a puzzle for a group in my campaign over 15 years ago... The group could never solve it. A number of campaigns have ended and restarted, and the puzzle remains.

Every once in a while it comes up... either by an NPC or the players themselves... And the group thinks about it for a while, and occasionally go back to the site to look over the clues...

One day, they might figure it out. Or maybe not.... but they remember it. What lies beyond the door? Who knows, I never even got that far, but the players always bring it up at holiday parties, trying to get me to tell. I just grin...

It's just one of those things..... if they can't get past it... oh well. It will remain one of those mysteries which make the campaign feel more.... real.

Aluvial

Click to expand...

I like the idea of puzzles that can't be solved (or at least not by the current group of characters). But both of the puzzles I mention are significant bumps in the road. In at least one of the campaigns in question, I'm afraid the entire campaign might go off the rails if we can't solve the puzzle.

I like Ruslanchik's guidelines. I've run into situations in past games in which the GM set some kind of puzzler for the group thinking that we'd get it right away. I think the GM, or the adventure designer if it's a published adventure, needs to recognize that people don't all think in the same way or know the same things.

Walt C said:

Combat does not solely rely on the ability of the characters either. The Player makes all the tactical decisions, which may or may not be the best courses of action.

Click to expand...

I agree, but when I play I try to make my tactical decisions based on the knowledge and personality of my character as much as possible. Puzzles seem to me to make that type of thinking much more difficult to accomplish.

Why do the villains bother? You'd think they would come up with better security than something a wizard could puzzle through (no pun intended).

From a DMs perspective; and from some of the Dnd books. Puzzles and riddles are tricky. Too hard, and the players get frustrated; too easy, and the players want harder challenges. What options do DMs have: make no puzzles? That's rediculous, DnD should have a few puzzles.

So, with my group, I create puzzles/riddles every 3 or 4 sessions. I make them stupidly easy and even then they can have problems discovering the answers.

So, what can you do as a player? Hmm, at worst, if possible, go to a nearby town and seek out a cleric to cast a few divination spells. It may take more time but it may work. Also, just ask the DM strait out: what have we missed; what can we do to solve this puzzles; where might we find clues?...etc...

Good luck and remember DMs have to balance between too easy and too hard. After all, riddles are a part of fantasy role playing; just watch a few type movies and see all the riddles adventurers must face.

I don't have any problem with puzzles in D&D. What I do have a problem with is a DM going to ridiculous lengths to make sure that solving the puzzle/riddle/whatever is the ONLY way to proceed. A door that opens when the answer to a riddle is spoken aloud is fine; if that same door is completely impervious to the barbarian's adamantine greataxe and all the party's magic, and there's NO other way to get to the other side and continue the adventure, that's silly and railroady. Plus, if the players can't solve it, the game grinds to a halt.

There are two ways to deal with this, I've found (besides just not using puzzles or riddles at all):

1) Have puzzles in the game, but only ones that give the players a bonus reward if they solve them. Have a puzzle door that opens into a small cache of treasure that the player's wouldn't otherwise get; don't have it at a choke point on the path to the BBEG. That way, if the players can't solve the puzzle, the adventure can continue.

2) Have other ways to get past the area with the puzzle, even if they come at a cost (the players have to use spells, fight a dangerous battle they could have otherwise avoided, etc.) Again, solving the puzzle provides a bonus, but doesn't stop the game if they can't do it.

I think these are good compromises for puzzle-loving DMs.

I'd suggest letting PCs who solve a puzzle or riddle bypass a challenge, but also have the option for them to get through another way (such as combat, a trap-filled corridor, or some form of sacrifice) if they can't solve it. Perhaps the puzzle activates a teleporter to a secret treasure room, but isn't actually essential to completing the mission.

Edit: Beat to the punch...