D&D and Medieval/Dark Ages Simulationism

So, I have been reading a lot of books - both scholarly and pop-history -- on Roman Briatin, the Dark Ages and medieval life/warfare lately and it reminded me that a long time ago when we played D&D, we assumed a medieval or dark ages milieu and often took soem pains to simulate that milieu. While EGG made an unequivocal statement in the 1E DMG that D&D would fail miserably as a medieval combat simulation, I don't think he extended it to attempting to simulate medieval/dark ages life and society. The 1E DMG is chock full of tables and charts to support the idea of such a setting, from tradesmen names to diseases to costs for soldiers and fortifications.

So, without going back to 1E, what changes, inclusions and/or omissions need to be administered to D&D to promote medieval/dark ages simulation insofar as the setting/milieu is concerned? What changes would you make, both in presentation ("fluff") and rules ("crunch")? Moreover, would you at all? Is D&D best, in your opinion, when attemtping to fit into a semi-historical milieu?

Reynard said:

So, without going back to 1E, what changes, inclusions and/or omissions need to be administered to D&D to promote medieval/dark ages simulation insofar as the setting/milieu is concerned? What changes would you make, both in presentation ("fluff") and rules ("crunch")?

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I'll focus on rules issues here. Capping play at a very low level would be one of the paramount elements, in my estimation. As soon as you have characters with regular access to much of the magic in the PHB, there is no rational justification (IMNSHO, of course) for a society which resembles a medieval/dark ages period. The presence of fireball, for example, completely changes the paradigm of military forces in such a setting. Similarly, the existence of a large number of the MM monsters would substantialy change the world in ways that a medieval/dark ages society could not really be justified. And, of course, once PCs (and presumably some NPCs) have a few levels under their belts, you essentially have superheroes in medieval clothing walking around, which makes any attempt at a medieval/dark ages setting a thin veneer at best. To use a literary example, Spenser's The Faerie Queene has exactly this issue. It may be purportedly set in a medieval/dark ages setting, but the existence of the knights, dragons, wizards, Gloriana and her fairy court, and other such elements makes it only a weak gesture at an authentically medieval world.

Moreover, would you at all? Is D&D best, in your opinion, when attemtping to fit into a semi-historical milieu?

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I would absolutely not do so. I actually think that D&D is incredibly weak at attempting to fit into a semi-historical milieu and in order to do so, would need to have so much removed from it that it would almost be unrecognizable. I also tend to be very aware of all the factors that come together to create any historical moment. So, in this case, creating an accurate approximation of Western Europe (though you didn't mention it, I'm quite sure you mean W. Europe) in the dark ages without having the existence of the Christian Church, the Black Death, the fall of Rome, etc. actually exist in the setting would seriously strain my credulity.

In my opinion, D&D doesn't do accurate historical gaming well. In fact, I don't think it does fantasy that well either, though it does so better than historical gaming. What it does do well is mythic gaming (which is akin to superhero gaming). As far as setting is concerned, I much prefer settings like Eberron, which draw upon our history but modify it drastically, taking into account the influence of magic and other elements of the D&D world which didn't exist in ours.

I assume you mean the world that medieval people thought they lived in, rather than the actual medieval world. Here are some suggestions make the game run like medieval legends:

No player characters races other than human. Half-elves maybe (if they hid their ears). You could have PCs that are cambions (half-demon, like Merlin), but they would have to look completely human. Non humans who enter a human settlement might be killed on sight.

Exclude the Monk class.

Female adventurers will generally have to pretend to be men, although female knights do exist in medieval legend (Bradamante, for instance). There is definitely no "hooker plate" in existence; armor for women looks exactly like armor for men, with just a tiny bit more room in the chest (women who fought would bind their breasts beforehand)

Most priests are NOT members of the Cleric class, and CANNOT cast spells. Exceptional people who can work divine miracles are either considered saints, or considered to be in league with demons.

Magic is rare, and feared. Wizards are not considered part of ordinary society, and either work for the nobility (as court astrologers, etc.) or live alone in secluded locations. Minor talismans and potions might actually be available for sale to very wealthy people, but under no circumstances can powerful magic items be bought. "Powerful" would start with permanently enchanted +1 daggers. Nobody uses magic on a battlefield, because in order to do so they would have to convince a wizard to care about human concerns, and would also face social ostracism for dealing with dark powers.

Extreme social inequality, including slavery and serfdom. The same noble who might be considered a Paladin might also claim the right to rape peasant women on their wedding night (Jus Prima Nocta). The Church would not see a problem with this.

Public torture and executions are treated as entertainment.

No police force or fire departments. When a crime is committed, or there is any emergency, it is everybody's responsibility to get involved. Punishments for crimes are fines, torture,mutilation, or death. Nobles might be imprisoned, but only for political reasons.

No items like tanglefoot bags, or alchemist's fire are for sale.

There is not a whole of lot of coinage around. Most economic activity is carried out through barter.

No villages and towns with widely separated houses. People live as close together as they can, with no concept of privacy. There is no concept of childhood, so people freely perform every biological function in front of young people. Towns and strongholds are surrounded by farms, and there are no isolated cities farther than a day's ride from an agricultural area.

Inn rooms generally feature 1 bed where up to a dozen people may be sleeping. And getting bit by bed bugs. There is no "menu" in inns. The food is whatever stew they made, and that's all they serve. There's one kind of beer (or wine) available, and that's all there is to drink (the water's unsafe).

That's some things I could think of offhand.

That sounds a lot less like the world of the medieval imagination and a lot more like the imagination of people 400 years after the fall of Constantinople trying to deride the medieval imagination.

To the OP = what sort of medieval-ness did you have in mind? It's a huge period.

There are many things in 3e that are so far removed from a dark ages milieu that they'd need to be changed or outright scrapped to get that feeling. Presentation wise I'd think you'd have to change race relations and the face of religion radically. The tone of the game would probably be better altered from high adventure to just plain survival. The mystery would have to be put back in magic, and that is just from the perspective of presentation. I think magic would require a massive overhaul rules-wise. At the risk of sparking heated debate I'll say this. D&D magic in the RAW would alter and supplant so many aspects of technological evolution that I think the world would start to look very different from even a bronze age setting, never mind a few more jumps up the cultural ladder. And I also think that the economy of the game would require a serious reworking as well. Start by switching to the silver standard.

Mechanically you'd need to address magic, hit points and recovery, disease and infection, some class builds (I'm thinking monk and paladin, specifically), and probably create some manner of social class system. Feudalism was pretty stratified in the manner of who got to do what and who told who what to do.

This is all pretty much off the cuff. I know I've got more thoughts regarding this topic 'cuz it's one I've often considered myself.

As an aside I think that Warhammer FRPG has a good dark ages feel to it. I can't speak for the current edition but I know the original rules were quite dark and gritty. The time period was more Late Medieval to Early Renaissance but it felt pretty damn dark.

Personally, if you wanted some more genuine feeling dark ages gaming I would suggest pitching baseline D&D altogether. While d20 would still work as a system I think D&D as a ruleset and genre just requires too much alteration. May as well start with something as simple as parts of the SRD that are suitable and build what you like from the ground up.

As I finish up here another thought occurs to me. The Conan d20 RPG from Mongoose has a pretty dark ages feel to it. The classes are largely bereft of supernatural abilities. Magic is dangerous, time-consuming, and non-utilitarian. There's a pretty big distinction between barbaric races and classes and civilized ones. And, of course, no elves.

Anyway, my thoughts on the matter.

You might want to check out the Medieval Player's Manual, from Green Ronin.

Walt

Limit some of the equipment, no glasses or clocks or any of the renaisaince stuff that is in the PH.

Might go with base illiteracy, require either a skill point or feat to be literate.

Try for a point of light style setting, frontier with wilderness, a central walled fort people can flee to when the orcs come raiding. A lord with a mage adviser and a bunch of warrior types and servants (perhaps a clerical adviser). Towns have craftsfolk, a priest, and a place for farmers to bring in goods. Peasant farmers and a few assorted folk (woodcutters, a witch, brigands).

Maybe adapt some Ars Magica stuff or get Green Ronin's Medieval Handbook.

Paladin might also claim the right to rape peasant women on their wedding night (Jus Prima Nocta).

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It didn't have to be rape. And it was as obvious as paying taxes. Keep in mind that it was(had to be) accepted also by peasants.

However, I don't think D&D is a good system for medieval scenery. There is too much to be changed, if you ask me. The more "real" the world would be, the less D&D.
D20 mechanics also suck here IMO. Better try some completely different mechanics.

The Cleric class would probably be the most influential on several levels. There would need to be more "setting emphasis" on the importance and role of the clergy in the game-world.

Reynard said:

Moreover, would you at all? Is D&D best, in your opinion, when attemtping to fit into a semi-historical milieu?

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I would not.

D&D, despite borrowing some cosmetic elements of medieval history, has much, much, more that is not borrowed from medieval history. Spell casting warrior priests as the default clergy? Magic nipped from The Dying Earth? Kung-fu monks clearly inspired by Hollywood's take on the Shaolin? Tolkien-eque Elves and Dwarves? The Great Wheel of the planes? Giant underground mazes as commonly occurring phenomena? Entire civilizations of sea dwelling or subterranean races?

All of this and more would need to be ditched for the game to resemble anything remotely similar to the historical dark ages. The good news is that it's largely a matter of ignoring certain things. The bad news is, the few things that aren't a matter of deliberate ignorance are a royal pain to rebuild -- lay clergy who don't wield crazy Vancian spells, studious as opposed to cinematic martial monks, magic that isn't Vancian in nature, etc.

Ultimately, making D&D into a historical medieval recreation is a lot of work -- fantasy systems exist that do this thing better, with far less necessary conversion.

[Edit: In D&D, I could overlook things such as the low lethality of combat and eternally escalating character competency for the sake of heroism (which arguably also exists in historical Europe) but the other elements listed above are specific to Fantasy.]