Grapple: LIVING SHIELD [mearls]

Dragon Snack · Feb 4, 2008

I think this deserves it's own thread, since it's kind of tangental to the actual thread about playtest deaths (I agree with Lizard, so I included his comments as well)...

Lizard said:
mearls said:

I can lay claim to the first PC killed in 4e, and the best part is that a second PC delivered the killing blow. A bugbear strangler popped out from behind a tapestry to garotte the ranger. The fighter/rogue ran to attack the strangler, the bugbear swung the ranger up as a living shield, and one crit later we had a dead ranger.

Click to expand...

Is this sort of thing something there's rules for ("I grab character X and use him a shield!") or was it pure GM fiat ("Yeah, that'd be cool^h^h^h^ nifty?") 'Cause, if it's the former, you might have won a 4e convert...

(I can *always* handwave/fiat everything. I'm the GM. ... I don't. I want rules. Big, crunchy, rules. And if they cover things like "The bugbear grabs you and interposes you" in a way that's fair (rules based), then 4e has, IMO, scored a serious Win Point.)

This is the first thing I've heard about 4.0 that actually made me go "REALLY!?" in a positive way. Positively giddy, actually (my inner DM is grinning).

This is the kind of thing I want to hear about...

Give me more. More! MORE!!!

Lackhand · Feb 4, 2008

Things that could make it work: If you strike into a grapple, and miss your target, you hit the cover (again)? Possibly with an extra roll, possibly not, possibly involving some work from either grappler?

Maybe someone in a grapple can make a grapple check with their target to switch places with them?

Maybe bugbear stranglers are magic (I think this is least likely)?

Any other ways to parse this?

Wormwood · Feb 4, 2008

It could simply be an ability germane to Bugbear Stranglers. A special attack listed in their stat block. Seems in keeping with the (apparent) 4e monster design.

And that's ~~cool~~ okay with me.

Stormtalon · Feb 4, 2008

Lackhand said:
Things that could make it work: If you strike into a grapple, and miss your target, you hit the cover (again)? Possibly with an extra roll, possibly not, possibly involving some work from either grappler?

Maybe someone in a grapple can make a grapple check with their target to switch places with them?

Maybe bugbear stranglers are magic (I think this is least likely)?

Any other ways to parse this?

I'd say Option 2 is probably the most likely answer (switch places with grapplee), though I'd disallow it in situations where the person being grappled is in an inconvenient location -- such as in the process of being "grappled" by a Purple Worm's stomach....

The_Fan · Feb 4, 2008

Could be the bugbear strangler is optimized for grapple (likely) and therefore has special abilities that make him more dangerous in a grapple. One such ability would probably be the living shield one. Otherwise, in 3.x, a grappler was far too vulnerable to attacks from outside the grapple.

A'koss · Feb 4, 2008

Yeah, however he accomplished it, it was very ~~cool~~ rad. It has a very Iron Heroes-y vibe to it, and I'm hoping they pick up some of the other grapple-moves from that game (holding opponents helplessly overhead, slamming them, throwing them...).

Mustrum_Ridcully · Feb 4, 2008

A'koss said:
Yeah, however he accomplished it, it was very ~~cool~~ rad. It has a very Iron Heroes-y vibe to it, and I'm hoping they pick up some of the other grapple-moves from that game (holding opponents helplessly overhead, slamming them, throwing them...).

Damn! I forgot about that! Luckily, my players might have to go up against a group of Ogres next! I am totally ~~stealing~~ using the rules then. Unless I forget them again...

Fallen Seraph · Feb 4, 2008

A'koss said:
Yeah, however he accomplished it, it was very ~~cool~~ rad. It has a very Iron Heroes-y vibe to it, and I'm hoping they pick up some of the other grapple-moves from that game (holding opponents helplessly overhead, slamming them, throwing them...).

*shudders* I am reminded when in WoD my weak Mekhet vampire got thrown off the side of a building by being grappled. Then almost dead, had a dumpster-bin dropped on him ><

A'koss · Feb 4, 2008

Fallen Seraph said:
*shudders* I am reminded when in WoD my weak Mekhet vampire got thrown off the side of a building by being grappled. Then almost dead, had a dumpster-bin dropped on him ><

Heh, heh... ouch. Yeah, that'll leave a bit of a stain on the sidewalk.

In my previous IH game we had an absolutely great fight where 3 Ice Drakes (my own creation) attacked a ship the PCs and crew were just unloading. It quickly turned into Wrestlemania XXV - the Drakes were picking up PCs and throwing throwing them overboard, throwing them into other crew off the aftcastle. There was one PC who was a wrestling specialist and he and one Drake were taking turns powerslaming each other into the deck. :lol:

The Shadow · Feb 4, 2008

I'm expecting/hoping that there will be a general "stunt" mechanic in the DMG. Basically a guideline for the DM in terms of setting DC's for ~~cool~~ awesome moves not directly addressed by the rules.

Grapple: LIVING SHIELD [mearls]

Dragon Snack

First Post

Lackhand

First Post

Wormwood

Adventurer

Stormtalon

First Post

The_Fan

First Post

A'koss

Explorer

Mustrum_Ridcully

Legend

Fallen Seraph

First Post

A'koss

Explorer

The Shadow

Hero

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