challenge rating adjustment for PC wealth?

Stanoje · Feb 17, 2008

Say I want to create a big endboss NPC but find the guidelines for NPC gear/wealth a bit puny for this particular character. How would the NPC's challenge rating change if I gave him as much wealth/gear as a PC of equivalent level?

Are there rules/guidelines for that somewhere in the books?

blargney the second · Feb 17, 2008

Easiest way to figure it out is make it so the BBEG is wearing the loot for a bunch of different encounters (ie he's worth 3 encoutners, while the previous 2 gave next to nothing).

eamon · Feb 17, 2008

In my experience, a full PC-wealth NPC has a challenge rating of his class level, if reasonably optimized and statted similar to the PC's. A normal NPC has a challenge rating of around 1 below that except at low levels (in other words the standard guidelines overstate the challenge at medium to high levels). At high levels an NPC with only NPC level wealth might be even CR 2 weaker, but that's extreme, and I'm not very experienced with levels beyond 13. Gestalt adds about 1 CR.

Note, however, that you'll throw wealth by level out of whack enormously if you actually let your PC's gain all that wealth - unless you're playing at very low levels, where PC and NPC wealth are similar. Even a normal NPC grants far more treasure than warranted for his CR, so you shouldn't use them too often. PC-level wealth...

For example; an EL 10 encounter on average should result in 5800 gp. An 11th level NPC has 21000gp (Which I find to be a CR 10 encounter). A 10th level PC has 49000 gp (also CR 10). As the level rises, these numbers diverge even more.

s-dub · Feb 18, 2008

You could always give him wealth that's easily expendable during the fight, or maybe have him buy a trap or two.

I tend to give my NPC's more resources than the DMG would allow but attempt to balance it between items that PC's can use and items that they can't/don't care to.

lottrbacchus · Feb 18, 2008

IMC, the party just met a PC powered BBEG, and I can attest that his extra equipment and better attributes would justify a +1 CR.

Storme · Feb 18, 2008

That rule is violently broken. I am SO glad 4.0 is doing away with it. It just doesn't work, or make sense.

Tequila Sunrise · Feb 19, 2008

eamon said:
In my experience, a full PC-wealth NPC has a challenge rating of his class level, if reasonably optimized and statted similar to the PC's. A normal NPC has a challenge rating of around 1 below that except at low levels (in other words the standard guidelines overstate the challenge at medium to high levels). At high levels an NPC with only NPC level wealth might be even CR 2 weaker, but that's extreme, and I'm not very experienced with levels beyond 13. Gestalt adds about 1 CR.

Note, however, that you'll throw wealth by level out of whack enormously if you actually let your PC's gain all that wealth - unless you're playing at very low levels, where PC and NPC wealth are similar. Even a normal NPC grants far more treasure than warranted for his CR, so you shouldn't use them too often. PC-level wealth...

For example; an EL 10 encounter on average should result in 5800 gp. An 11th level NPC has 21000gp (Which I find to be a CR 10 encounter). A 10th level PC has 49000 gp (also CR 10). As the level rises, these numbers diverge even more.

Agreed 100%. Rather than give your BBEG more items though, as this runs the risk of overgifting the PCs, I suggest just upping his HPs and giving him a few unamed bonuses. The players will never know, so it's okay right?

TS

moritheil · Feb 19, 2008

eamon said:
For example; an EL 10 encounter on average should result in 5800 gp. An 11th level NPC has 21000gp (Which I find to be a CR 10 encounter). A 10th level PC has 49000 gp (also CR 10). As the level rises, these numbers diverge even more.

Note, of course, that under normal rules selling that loot is only going to yield half or less, and the party must find interested buyers. Still, it does add up.

Tequila Sunrise said:
Agreed 100%. Rather than give your BBEG more items though, as this runs the risk of overgifting the PCs, I suggest just upping his HPs and giving him a few unamed bonuses. The players will never know, so it's okay right?

TS

I'd rather intelligently use the resources the BBEG legitimately claims. The last time someone brought this up, my examples were things like orange ioun stones for balors, which enable blasphemy to daze level 20 characters instead of doing nothing. Little things like that can add up and make the BBEG a more legitimate threat.

The occasional cursed item that doesn't hurt the BBEG in combat (and may even be the driving force behind his murderous reign) can add to the plot and help improve challenge at the same time, while not taking up a huge portion of the BBEG's wealth.

And it goes without saying that you should custom allocate feats and stats for a BBEG. It's not a run-of-the-mill monster, after all; it's a highly unusual one.

Aus_Snow · Feb 19, 2008

Immortals Handbook: appendix v5 (available for free) deals with this very neatly. Oh, and a whole bunch of other things, like balancing CR, ECL and EL properly in the first place. Highly recommended. . . but only if you are willing and able to change the way you deal with 3e mechanics. It could take a bit of getting used to, but it's quite brilliant.

challenge rating adjustment for PC wealth?

Stanoje

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blargney the second

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eamon

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s-dub

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lottrbacchus

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Storme

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Tequila Sunrise

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moritheil

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Aus_Snow

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