D&DXP: Skills...

Looking over the char sheets from D&Dxp, here's what I think's going on.

Universal class skills:
Everyone gets them, but they're not necessarily trained.
Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Perception, Stealth.
Insight and Perception are used as static "defenses" against Bluff? and Stealth respectively.

Skill list:
Acrobatics - Dex.
Arcana - Int.
Athletics - Str.
Bluff - Cha.
Diplomacy - Cha.
Dungeoneering - Wis.
Endurance - Con.
Heal - Wis.
History - Int.
Insight - Wis.
Intimidate - Cha.
Nature - Wis or Int. Ranger seems to use Wis, while the Wizard seems to use Int.
Perception - Wis.
Religion - Int.
Stealth - Dex.
Streetwise - Cha.
Thievery - Dex.

Trained skills by class:
Paladin: 4 trained skills.
Cleric: 4 trained skills.
Fighter: 4 trained skills.
Ranger: 6 trained skills.
Wizard: 4 trained skills.
Warlock: 4 trained skills.
Rogue: 6 trained skills.

Considering how clean the numbers are below, we can assume that there is no real difference between class skills and non-class skills (a house rule mentioned in Saga that many thought would make it into 4th).

The few skills that don't add up are marked with a "?".

Sample characters and the numbers:
Paladin-
Acrobatics -1. (Dex +1; -2 armor penalty)
Athletics -2. (Str +2; -4 armor penalty)
Diplomacy +8 (Cha +3; +5 trained)
Heal +8 (Cha +3; +5 trained)
Insight +8 (Wis +3; +5 trained)
Perception +3 (Wis +3)
Religion +4 (Int -1; +5 trained)
Stealth -3 (Dex +1; -4 armor penalty)

Why the difference between the Acrobatics and Athletics/Stealth penalty?

Cleric-
Acrobatics -1 (Dex +0; -1 armor penalty)
Arcana +6 (Int +1; +5 trained)
Athletics +1 (Str +2; -1 armor penalty)
Heal +9 (Wis +4; +5 trained)
History +6 (Int +1; +5 trained)
Insight +9 (Wis +4; +5 trained)
Perception +4 (Wis +4)
Religion +6 (Int +1; +5 trained)
Stealth -1 (Dex +0; -1 armor penalty)

Fighter-
Acrobatics -1 (Dex +1; -2 armor penalty)
Athletics +6 (Str +3; +5 trained; -2 armor penalty)
Endurance +9 (Con +4; +5 trained)
Heal +7 (Wis +2; +5 trained)
Insight +2 (Wis +2)
Perception +2 (Wis +2)
Stealth -1 (Dex +1; -2 armor penalty)
Streetwise +4 (Cha -1; +5 trained)

Ranger-
Acrobatics +9 (Dex +4; +5 trained)
Athletics +7 (Str +2; +5 trained)
History +8 (Int +1; +5 trained; +2 ?)
Insight +2 (Wis +2)
Nature +7 (Wis +2; +5 trained)
Perception +7 (Wis +2; +5 trained)
Stealth +9 (Dex +4; +5 trained)

Wizard-
Acrobatics +2 (Dex +2)
Arcana +10 (Int +5; +5 trained)
Athletics +0 (Str +0)
History +10 (Int +5; +5 trained)
Insight -1 (Wis -1)
Nature +10 (Int +5; +5 trained)
Perception -1 (Wis -1)
Stealth +9 (Dex +2; +5 trained; +2 skill training feat)

That the "Skill Training" feat grants a +2 skill bonus is my assumption. It's neat and simple, it lines up all classes as having at least 4 trained skills (otherwise only the Wizard would have 3). If this assumption is correct, it could be confusing to have "trained" skills grant +5, while "training" skills (via the feat) only grant +2.

Warlock-
Acrobatics +0 (Dex +0)
Athletics +0 (Str +0)
Bluff +9 (Cha +4; +5 trained)
Insight +6 (Wis -1; +5 trained; +2 ?)
Perception -1 (Wis -1)
Stealth +0 (Dex)
Streetwise +9 (Cha +4; +5 trained)
Thievery +5 (Dex +0; +5 trained)

Armor penalty:
From these we can assume that heavier armors give a skill penalty as before. The penalty affects at least Acrobatics, Athletics, and Stealth.

Plate: -4.
Chainmail: -1.
Scale: -2.
Hide: -0.
Leather: -0.

Hmm... So in total there are 22 Skills (as far as we know) that I would say is a pretty nice number.

So it seems like Intelligence dealing with Skills and Skill Points are for sure gone then.

Fallen Seraph said:

Hmm... So in total there are 22 Skills (as far as we know) that I would say is a pretty nice number.

So it seems like Intelligence dealing with Skills and Skill Points are for sure gone then.

Click to expand...

I thinks so. The wizard has Int 20 +5, and I had to do some figuring to get his trained skills up to 4.

I dunno whether or not I like that Skill Points are gone, I sorta would like to see Skill Points added on-top of this sytem. *Shrugs shoulders* guess I shall have to just see when 4E comes out.

Hmm. I don't think skill training is giving +2 to stealth. I think thats more likely from stealth being a tiefling racial skill bonus.

Similarly, the halflings difference between athletics and acrobatics might be a racial skill bonus

And nature may well be int, but the eladrin is getting +2 from a racial bonus, along with history.

And half-elves would be insight.

breschau said:

Ranger-
Acrobatics +9 (Dex +4; +5 trained)
Athletics +7 (Str +2; +5 trained)
History +8 (Int +1; +5 trained; +2 ?)
Insight +2 (Wis +2)
Nature +7 (Wis +2; +5 trained)
Perception +7 (Wis +2; +5 trained)
Stealth +9 (Dex +4; +5 trained)


Warlock-
Acrobatics +0 (Dex +0)
Athletics +0 (Str +0)
Bluff +9 (Cha +4; +5 trained)
Insight +6 (Wis -1; +5 trained; +2 ?)
Perception -1 (Wis -1)
Stealth +0 (Dex)
Streetwise +9 (Cha +4; +5 trained)
Thievery +5 (Dex +0; +5 trained)

Click to expand...

The Ranger's +2 to History is a Racial modifier for being Eladrin; therefore, I suspect the Warlock's +2 to Insight might be for being Half-Elf.

Voss said:

Hmm. I don't think skill training is giving +2 to stealth. I think thats more likely from stealth being a tiefling racial skill bonus.

Similarly, the halflings difference between athletics and acrobatics might be a racial skill bonus

And nature may well be int, but the eladrin is getting +2 from a racial bonus, along with history.

And half-elves would be insight.

Click to expand...

Agreed, I think this is much more likely.

Stalker0 said:

Agreed, I think this is much more likely.

Click to expand...

Fair enough. That leaves the Wizard with only 3 trained skills from class.

breschau said:

Fair enough. That leaves the Wizard with only 3 trained skills from class.

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They get Ritual use to make up for it, though.

But on the other hand, so do Clerics. Hrm.

Peter LaCara said:

They get Ritual use to make up for it, though.

But on the other hand, so do Clerics. Hrm.

Click to expand...

Cantrips.