Armor Class (Reverse Engineering)

Hello everyone, first post here, I have been trying to find the Armor Bonus from each character of the D&D4 experience sheets but it's a long time I haven't played D&D so I may be completly wrong with the rules (almost haven't played since AD&D2 with Skills & Powers, I have read D&D3 a long time ago but I only played once due to lack of DM)
I need your help to fill the holes or correct me if I am completly missing something. Thks

Dext or Int: Possible

Wizard- None ---- AC15 Vs. Base10 (Dex+2) -Int+5- Shield+0 ==> AC15 = AC15 + None ---- 0 Seems OK (Maybe confirms Int as AC bonus)
Warlock Leather - AC15 Vs. Base10 (Dex+0) -Int+2- Shield+0 ==> AC15 = AC12 + Leather - 3 ?
Ranger- Hide ---- AC17 Vs. Base10 -Dex+4- (Int+1) Shield+0 ==> AC17 = AC14 + Hide ---- 3 ?
Cleric- Chainmail AC16 Vs. Base10 (Dex+0) -Int+1- Shield+0 ==> AC16 = AC11 + Chainmail 5 ?
Fighter Scale ---- AC19 Vs. Base10 -Dex+1- (Int+0) Shield+2 ==> AC19 = AC13 + Scale --- 6 ?
Paladin Plate ---- AC20 Vs. Base10 -Dex+1- (Int-1) Shield+2 ==> AC20 = AC13 + Plate --- 7 ? (Maybe Plate 6 & Small Size +1)

The only problem is Leather is the same as Hide, but it's not impossible.

Dext Only: Impossible

Wizard- None ---- AC15 Vs. Base10 Dex+2 Shield+0 ==> AC15 = AC12 + None ---- 3 Impossible (+3 from nowhere)
Warlock Leather - AC15 Vs. Base10 Dex+0 Shield+0 ==> AC15 = AC10 + Leather - 5 Impossible (Leather would be much higher than Hide)
Ranger- Hide ---- AC17 Vs. Base10 Dex+4 Shield+0 ==> AC17 = AC14 + Hide ---- 3 ?
Cleric- Chainmail AC16 Vs. Base10 Dex+0 Shield+0 ==> AC16 = AC10 + Chainmail 6 Unlikely (Chainmail would be equivalent to Scale)
Fighter Scale ---- AC19 Vs. Base10 Dex+1 Shield+2 ==> AC19 = AC13 + Scale --- 6 ?
Paladin Plate ---- AC20 Vs. Base10 Dex+1 Shield+2 ==> AC20 = AC13 + Plate --- 7 ? (Maybe Plate 6 & Small Size +1)

Edit1: Replaced Double Space by - to save formatting
Edit2: Typo

My take on Armor in 4e:

Armor Types:

None = 10 Base + 0 Armor Bonus + Dex/Int Mod (highest) + Feats/Bonuses +1/2 Character lvl
Light = 10 Base + 3 Armor Bonus + Dex/Int Mod (highest) + Feats/Bonuses +1/2 Character lvl
Medium = 10 Base + 5 Armor Bonus + Dex/Int Mod (highest) + Feats/Bonuses +1/2 Character lvl
Heavy = 10 Base + 7 Armor Bonus + Dex/Int Mod (highest) + Feats/Bonuses +1/2 Character lvl

Using a Shield also applies:
Light Shield ??
Heavy Shield +1 AC +2 Ref Defense

Small Size: +1 AC
Human Perserverance: +1 AC

We have a photo of part of the rules of armor: http://picasaweb.google.com/kennon.bauman/CoreBookPages/photo#5173151936740774530

Light armor = armor bonus + Dex/Int mod (highest) + shield + ???
Heavy armor = armor bonus + shield + ???

from
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=992602

Quote:
According to Races and Classes, we have:

Cloth/Robes--Wizards get this
Leather--Rogues and Warlocks get this
Hide--Rangers, Druids, and Barbarians get this
Chain--Clerics and Warlords get this
Scale--Fighters get this
Plate--Paladins and maybe Fighters get this

& the rogue entry preview says rogues get Leather Armor not Light Armor.

so the logic would be that light/medium/heavy armor feats would be gone & that leather/hide/chain/scale/plate are now feats with a +1 incrementation as almost every D&D3 feat that provide AC bonus provides a +1 bonus.

there is no reason why the rogue entry would not list "light armor" instead of "leather" if the old category would still be feats, maybe light/medium/heavy still exist but I doubt it still have a game effect.

I also doubt Heavy Shield is only +1AC, because then who would wear a Light Shield with no AC bonus.

Human Perseverance feat is not listed on the sheet to have an effect on AC, it looks like "Luck of Heroes" forgotten realms feat, in D&D3 it didn't provide an AC bonus ... only in D&D3.5. For me Human Perseverance applies to defenses/saves

where did you get the +1/2 Character lvl from ??? as far as I know AC has never increased by level in D&D ... it applies to defenses which in D&D4 context means saves.

sorry but your take on D&D4 Armor Class is obviously false try again

Edit: Xyl was faster thks a lot for the link, I read it right now !!!

I have corrected my maths after reading Xyl's post, it gives:

Light Armors (Dext or Int)
Wizard- Cloth --- AC15 Vs. Base10 (Dex+2) -Int+5- Shield+0 ==> AC15 = AC15 + Cloth --- 0 Seems OK
Warlock Leather - AC15 Vs. Base10 (Dex+0) -Int+2- Shield+0 ==> AC15 = AC12 + Leather - 3 ?
Ranger- Hide ---- AC17 Vs. Base10 -Dex+4- (Int+1) Shield+0 ==> AC17 = AC14 + Hide ---- 3 ?

Heavy Armors (Neither Dext nor Int) (Move-1)
Cleric- Chainmail AC16 Vs. Base10 Shield+0 ==> AC16 = AC10 + Chainmail 6 Seems OK
Fighter Scale --- AC19 Vs. Base10 Shield+2 ==> AC19 = AC12 + Scale --- 7 Seems OK
Paladin Plate --- AC20 Vs. Base10 Shield+2 ==> AC20 = AC12 + Plate --- 8 ? (Maybe Plate 7 & Small Size +1)

There isn't much problems with cloth & heavy armors, but the math give AC3 for both Leather & Hide, which is unlikely IMHO, so if someone have a clue

Edit:
Kobold- Hide ---- AC15 Vs. Base10 -Dex+3- (Int-2) Shield+1 ==> AC15 = AC14 + Hide ---- 1 ? Impossible

The Kobold preview doesn't match too ...

My take is slightly different but I don't know why the scale & plate and leather & hide are the same in my calcs? So I am doing something wrong

IMO Your AC is Reflex Defence plus armour bonus, thus:

Wizard: 10 + 5(INT) =15 Reflex Def.....15 + 0(cloth) = 5 AC
Warlock: 10 + 2(INT) + 1(class) = 13 Reflex Def.....13 + 2(leather) = 15 AC
Ranger: 10 + 4(DEX) + 1(class) = 15 Reflex Def.....15 + 2(hide) = 17 AC

Cleric: 10 + 1(DEX) + 1(human) = 12 Reflex Def.....12 + 4(chain) = 16 AC
Fighter: 10 + 1(DEX) + 2(H Shield) = 13 Reflex Def.....13 + 6(scale) = 19 AC
Paladin: 10 + 1(DEX) + 1(L Shield) + 1(halfling) = 13 Reflex Def.....13 + 6(plate) = 19 AC

sooo this would make sense to me, especially if there are errors in armour calculations on the sheets (already ability scores have been said to be in error):
Cloth: AC+0
Leather AC+2
Hide AC+3
Chain AC+4
Scale AC+5
Plate AC+6
I am sure the above list is right, even though my calculations don't agree Maybe the +6 for scale can be explained by a fighter or dwarf bonus in heavy armour. But then again maybe I am completely wrong

mach1.9pants:
dex & int bonus officially don't apply in heavy armor so you're obviously wrong too, at last for chainmail/scale/plate

furthermore the halfling is wearing a heavy shield not a light shield ... & you seem to add bonus wherever you need one just to fall on your feet with what YOU think is the valid AC for the armor (leather & hide) ...

what I am trying to do is guessing the true numbers with maths ... not to tweak the result with my own taste ...

I only agree with you for cloth=AC0 which is official too ...

actually the maths leads to:

Cloth: AC+0 (Official)
Leather AC+3 (or 2 if +1 Unknown Bonus for Half-Elf/Warlock)
Hide AC+3
Chain AC+6
Scale AC+7
Plate AC+8 (or 7 if +1 Small Size Bonus for the Halfling)

for me the big unknown is weither it's:

Leather 3
Hide 3

3/3 is ok with maths but unlikely IMHO, because you wouldn't buy Hide armor as a feat for no AC gain

or

Leather 2 (Unknown +1 for Half-Elf/Warlock)
Hide 3 Ok with maths

or even

Leather 3 Ok with maths
Hide 4 (Math Error: Missing +1 in the Eladrin/Ranger)

it's important for me because I play a light armored character with high dex so I wanna know if I can equal or even beat the AC of a stupid paladin in full plate ... with a simple hide armor

if hide=AC4 then hide4+dex4= full plate AC8
if hide=AC3 then it's close but not as good ...

furthermore if hide is +1 compared to leather ... I will never use a leather armor ... that's why I am unhappy with my maths telling me it's 3/3 for leather/hide

konki63 said:

furthermore the halfling is wearing a heavy shield not a light shield ... & you seem to add bonus wherever you need one just to fall on your feet with what YOU think is the valid AC for the armor (leather & hide) .

Click to expand...

I said in my post I was wrong. There is no need to get personal, there are errors, thank you for pointing them out, but you don't have to be insulting. The list I provided was 'my take' not a complete guess or an assault on yours!
My manin question to your reply is where did you get the INT and DEX doesn't apply to Heavy Armour AC from? That would make heaps of sense but I haven't seen it (as close as I have looked at the armour photo- I can't read it ). There was something mentioned in R&C about fighters being more efficient in armour as well so I wonder if that makes a difference?
It is a pity that we can't use the monster stats cos, I suppose, they don't use the same rules.

Yeah the Paladin should have been:
Paladin: 10 + 1(DEX) + 2(H Shield) + 1(halfling) = 14 Reflex Def.....14 + 6(plate) = 20 AC

From monsters list:
Human Guard, Level 1 Soldier: Chainmail AC: 16 (DEX is +2)
Human Bandit, Level 1 Skirmisher: Leather AC 16 (DEX is +4)
Human Berserker, Level 3 Brute: Leather AC 14 (DEX is +2)
Shadar-Kai Chainfighter, Level 6 Skirmisher: Leather AC 20 (DEX is +7)
Kobold Minion, Level 1 Minion: Hide + L Shield AC 15 (DEX is +3)
Kobold Wyrmpriest, Level 3 Artillery: Hide AC 17 (DEX is +3)
Kobold Skirmisher; Level 1 Skirmisher: Hide + L Shield AC 15 (DEX is +3)

Sorry if I was agressive ... I guess it's due to being non native english because it's not the first time it happens to me ... that's why I don't use forums anymore I always get banned because I always want to have the last word
I am sarcastic by nature & people don't like it ;(

If you were unable to read the armor page preview here is the main info in it according to me:
1: Int or Dex (Higher) apply to light armor (cloth/leather/hide)
2: neither Int nor Dex applies to Heavy Armor (Chainmail/Scale/Plate)
3: Cloth is AC0 but can be enchanted to get AC
4: Medium Armor is dead

These 4 infos are official now

As minor infos, rulz to get an armor off & penality for not being proficient with an armor are also written ... & all shields also seems to add both AC & Ref Bonus, & you can also notice that there is no picture of the "rondache" & tower shields too so they may have been removed.

Thks for the monsters, I will try to see if I can get some info from it but the Kobold entry was completly problematic, so I favor sheets.