D&D 4E 4e Healing - Is This Right?

Hey all,

With the handout sheets from DDXP, I'm wondering if I've read this right -- all hp are restored by an extended rest? So no matter what level you are, you rest for the night, and poof, you have full hit points?

Am I reading this correctly?

I believe so.

No more need to carry round a couple of wands of lesser vigor.

It strains my suspension of disbelief.

1) "Sorry to hear you fell out of a 4th story window Mr. Aragorn. Take 2 of these and call me in the morning. Actually, you won't need to take 2 of anything or call me ..."

2) Why would anyone take up the profession of physician?

Archade said:

It strains my suspension of disbelief.

1) "Sorry to hear you fell out of a 4th story window Mr. Aragorn. Take 2 of these and call me in the morning. Actually, you won't need to take 2 of anything or call me ..."

2) Why would anyone take up the profession of physician?

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Because the PCs are heroes and therefore capable of not only surviving more punishment than the ordinary person, but also because they're capable of ignoring that punishment and fighting on at full efficiency. Getting all your hp back from rest or healing surges doesn't mean you've mystically regenerated all of your wounds (well, not unless you were healed by magic), it means you've stuffed a bandage in that sword wound on your shoulder, splinted that greenstick fracture in your forearm, and cowboy'd up to carry on the fight. Ordinary people don't do that, and thus the PC healing rules don't apply to them. To use a current-edition example, it's like how only PCs and major NPCs get action points in Eberron.

Why should the time it takes a character to heal up change with levels?

Kordeth said:

Getting all your hp back from rest or healing surges doesn't mean you've mystically regenerated all of your wounds (well, not unless you were healed by magic), it means you've stuffed a bandage in that sword wound on your shoulder, splinted that greenstick fracture in your forearm, and cowboy'd up to carry on the fight. Ordinary people don't do that, and thus the PC healing rules don't apply to them. To use a current-edition example, it's like how only PCs and major NPCs get action points in Eberron.

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If that were the case, I would expect some sort of penalities for fighting with a sword wound on your shoulder and greenstick fracture in your forearm. However, there isn't one. You are, for all intents and purposes, fully healed.

Me, I prefer it when the fight went so badly the cleric used up all her healing spells (and there were a lot of them), all the charges from her healing staff, and after a night's rest the tank of the party is still down 20 hp. Makes it more believable for me and my players. When my players heal too quickly they say it takes away from their concern for their character. Why bother worrying about your character dying (even though I haven't killed off a PC in over 20 years) when you are at full HP the next morning, ready to take on another dragon or demon or godling or orc horde or whatever? Suspension of disbelief is gone.

Atheletes in top physical condition that suffer injuries and try to come back and play too quickly end up playing at a penalty (can't move as fast, or cut as fast) and sometimes end up hurt worse than they already were. So the idea of fighting with a wound or fracture even though your at full HP is bogus.

2) Why would anyone take up the profession of physician?

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Because HP loss doesn't model wounds which impair your fighting efficiency?

It's abstract, and as long as you're willing to accept HP as a combination of fatigue, morale and actual wounds, it works. Yes, you have the falling example which is the most grevious offender in this system, IMO, and yes, sometimes you shouldn't heal to full when you've been down to 1 HP...

But get over it. =) HP has always been abstract, unless you play that a 10th level fighter can literally suffer ten times as many sword wounds as a 1st level fighter. If you do, well, just acknowledge that seeing as how he can suffer ten times the wounds as a normal warrior, he's also capable of fast healing.

Archade said:

It strains my suspension of disbelief.

1) "Sorry to hear you fell out of a 4th story window Mr. Aragorn. Take 2 of these and call me in the morning. Actually, you won't need to take 2 of anything or call me ..."

2) Why would anyone take up the profession of physician?

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Joking: It's even worse than that! Mr. Aragorn's buddy Gandalf went out the same window right after him and didn't fall at all! He flew away! Without wings!

More Seriously: D&D has always allowed heroes to get back into the action quickly. Back in AD&D, a lot of people considered the Cleric to be 'required' in order to fill this role. In 3e, wands of cure light wounds and lesser vigor spread this duty out since a high proportion of classes could use them. In 4e, all characters can heal themselves out of combat. Is that really so bad?

hunter1828 said:

If that were the case, I would expect some sort of penalities for fighting with a sword wound on your shoulder and greenstick fracture in your forearm. However, there isn't one. You are, for all intents and purposes, fully healed.

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No, you're fighting at full capacity. There's a difference. Think back to, oh, say, every action movie ever made--how many times have you seen the hero take a crippling gunshot to the shoulder or a knife to the gut, and yeah, for a minute or two there it looks like he's in bad shape. But then he shakes it off, maybe slaps a bandage on, and in the next scene he's completely ignoring the wound despite the fact that, in real life, it would probably take surgery and months of rehab to get back even 50% of the use of that limb.

That's what D&D 4E hit points represent. 4th Edition is a larger-than-life fantasy action movie, and every PC is as tough as John McClane.

Me, I prefer it when the fight went so badly the cleric used up all her healing spells (and there were a lot of them), all the charges from her healing staff, and after a night's rest the tank of the party is still down 20 hp. Makes it more believable for me and my players. When my players heal too quickly they say it takes away from their concern for their character. Why bother worrying about your character dying (even though I haven't killed off a PC in over 20 years) when you are at full HP the next morning, ready to take on another dragon or demon or godling or orc horde or whatever? Suspension of disbelief is gone.

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And that's a perfectly valid playstyle, and one which I enjoy myself--it's just not the type of game 4E is trying to be.

Atheletes in top physical condition that suffer injuries and try to come back and play too quickly end up playing at a penalty (can't move as fast, or cut as fast) and sometimes end up hurt worse than they already were. So the idea of fighting with a wound or fracture even though your at full HP is bogus.

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Not surprising considering real-world athletes don't live in action-movie-land.

Archade said:

It strains my suspension of disbelief.

1) "Sorry to hear you fell out of a 4th story window Mr. Aragorn. Take 2 of these and call me in the morning. Actually, you won't need to take 2 of anything or call me ..."

2) Why would anyone take up the profession of physician?

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Think of the Die Hard series of movies.

I plan to make serious injuries a part of the story of the game that is wholly outside of hit points. Seriously, if you want to inflict debilitating injuries on your players, you have to think about the consequences for the way the players enjoy the game.