Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Alpha "crunch" discussion

I think the current pathfinder threads are largely about the business decision and looking to the future (plus 3e/4e discussions) So I was hoping to have someplace to purely discuss the rules on enworld. Thus the thread....

My thoughts:
Certainly an alpha version. Some really nice ideas, and some that look fairly broken/bad idea-ish.

• The skills look to be a bit messed up. If I'm following the rules correctly, a 10th level human rogue with a 14 int will have 16 skills "maxed out". That seems like a big change. The Human fighter with a 10 int will have 8 maxed skills. Not sure this is wise.
• The fixes to the fighter, while certainly needed, don't add much other than attack, damage, AC, and (at the very end) a huge amount of DR. It's also a "single path" (all fighters get the same bonuses) and the "options" (changing armor or weapon choices) are very non-optimal.
• The wizard "item rather than familiar" option looks over powered, and I think the specialist rules need a bit of work still. Also the sorc. will need some love (at least same familiar options).

The new "grapple/trip/etc." rules look like they are a real improvement, but I haven't looked too closely at them. The breakage rules look fairly good, and the simple rules for fixing broken magic items are certainly welcome.

All told, this looks to be a good start to a 3.75.

Thoughts?

Mark

(This probably belongs in rules I guess. In fact there is probably a thread there already... Ah well).

My own personal wish list would include getting rid of SR.

1) Most creatures with SR shouldn't have it -- it's not really part of their schtick. It's just there to toughen them up. I say -- if you want tougher opponents, give them better stats; and if they are particularly resistant or immune to some things, give them appropriate immunities/resistances instead of blanket SR
2) The remaining creatures should either simply be magic immune (a rare minority in my opinion), or should be noticibly harder to effect with magic. To accomplish this, give a small bonus to saves vs. magical effects (+2 to +4), and maybe grant them a kind of "magic evasion" -- full effect on a failed save, no effect on a successful save. [I personally don't even think this last bit is necessary, but it at least mimics the standard SR rules a bit more closely.]

I'm with Eric on SR. But then again, I play Wizards a lot, and at high levels SR can sometimes make my characters virtually useless, even with Improved Spell Penetration.

There's a distinct forum on Paizo's site specifically for rules discussion. I highly recommend consolidating all discussions there so that they don't get lost in the shuffle.

Certainly a good idea. I tried last night and ... let's just say a very elloquent essay on the purpose and nature of SR went "poof"... I'll try again...

Question: in your interpretation of the rules, does the turn/heal require that undead be present? i.e. you have to turn a monster to perform a mass heal?

Hiya another Mark! Excellent idea for a thread!


While we are on the subject of crunch, I just want to interject that I think it is absolutely admirable how sweepingly open and generous Paizo is with their OGC declaration. They limit their PI to the usual suspects and then pretty much open everything else.

Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, artifacts, places, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress.

Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the contents of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content might be reproduced in any form without written permission. To learn more about the Open Game License and the d20 System License, please visit wizards.com/d20.

The Pathfinder RPG is published by Paizo Publishing, LLC under the Open Game License v 1.0a Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc. All other trademarks are property of Paizo Publishing, LLC. ©2008 Paizo Publishing.

Click to expand...

It convinces me that they are a full partner with the community and particularly with the community of third party publishers and for that I applaud them wholeheartedly!


Moving on . . .[/Colbert]


I do not usually discuss my ongoing projects for various reasons and particularly avoid discussing the sources because of how perceptions of the exact nature of OGC declarations can vary from person to person and company to company but Paizo's open declaration doesn't leave any confusion as to their intentions and this makes me more comfortable than usual. As such, I am nearing the end of many years of developing a simpler system for handling combat (that also scales nicely to larger scale combats, though that is another story/post) and have been oscillating between a number of ways of handling grappling.


My question would be what people think of the grappling system devised by Paizo for their new rules?

amaril said:

There's a distinct forum on Paizo's site specifically for rules discussion. I highly recommend consolidating all discussions there so that they don't get lost in the shuffle.

Click to expand...

I'd just as soon post here but maybe someone could add a link over there to this thread in case they'd like to monitor it.

I'm looking forward to reading the grapple rules later in depth.

I didn't see much about monsters except in the conversion section, is there anything I missed?

Slower XP advancement is something I ignore in all the D&D variants.

Half-Orcs get a +2 wisdom? Why?

All races get an additional +2 ability modifer, why?

Tall anime elves don't bug me.

I like the d6 and d8 HD for rogues and wizards.

The skill system looks like one of the options from Unearthed Arcana.

I like the no xp penalty for multiclassing.

Fighters do get a big boost, everything from 3.5 plus options at weapon and armor stuff at every level and a little bit at super high levels.

Rogues get a ton of new abilities.

I'd prefer if rogue trapfinding was an auto check instead of restricting everybody else

Wizards get lots of new abilities.

Do generalists get just the base universalist ability (bonus metamagic and crafting time reduction) and universal is a school specialization option or do generalists get all those level abilities of universals as well?

Unlimited cantrips/orisons is nice and gives wizards a better flavor option than crossbows.

I wish there was more non cleric healing.

I'm glad turning damages undead.

Not bad. Looks to be (so far) backwards compatible 'enough' for me to keep buying their Pathfinder books. The skills are goofy, but I think the classes okay. (But then, I'm only approaching this from the DM/NPC point of view, since all the PCs IMC will be made using standard 3.5 rules).

Going too far will remove me from Paizo's customer base, though (might as well just play 4e).