Possession & MCvE - How would you rule? (My players stay out)

moritheil · Apr 1, 2008

If you are in my campaigns, please do not read further. Thank you.

Okay, I need a fast ruling. I have a player running a Fiend of Possession. He can possess and animate objects. He wants to possess and animate a section of the floor.

Is this legal?

I think this opens a can of worms if I allow him to designate a section of something as a target . . . you could then designate a section of wall as the recipient of your teleport spells.

Furthermore, he wants to then use that to grapple an enemy who has MCvE up. Does the MCvE prevent him from controlling/animating the floor?

eamon · Apr 1, 2008

moritheil said:
Okay, I need a fast ruling. I have a player running a Fiend of Possession. He can possess and animate objects. He wants to possess and animate a section of the floor.

Is this legal?

I think this opens a can of worms if I allow him to designate a section of something as a target . . . you could then designate a section of wall as the recipient of your teleport spells.

Furthermore, he wants to then use that to grapple an enemy who has MCvE up. Does the MCvE prevent him from controlling/animating the floor?

The MCvE has no effect, as far as I can tell, but I'd also be wary of allowing a person to animate a section of a floor. And even if he does... who's to say he can break free from the rest? That Break DC would be phenomenal (I'd say at least 40 if not much higher...)

Nifft · Apr 2, 2008

No sections. If he can't possess the whole house, he can't possess the house.

Cheers, -- N

Folly · Apr 2, 2008

Depends on if you call a possessed object a creature. If you do the MCvE will suppress the possession effect, if you don't it has no effect. I am not familiar enough with possession rules to say what the rule say a possessed object are, but I having the feeling that it is just an object.

moritheil · Apr 3, 2008

Thanks for your responses. I was pretty skeptical of animating sections; it's good to know other people agree.

Folly said:
Depends on if you call a possessed object a creature. If you do the MCvE will suppress the possession effect, if you don't it has no effect. I am not familiar enough with possession rules to say what the rule say a possessed object are, but I having the feeling that it is just an object.

The thing is, an animated object becomes a creature. So it seems that what should happen when he possesses + animates any object within MCvE is he immediately de-possesses it. But it gets weirder: FoPs aren't expelled by MCvE; they merely become "nondominant" in terms of personality (the original personality takes over.) Of course, an inanimate object has no original personality, so will it just be technically animated, but stand there?

jaelis · Apr 3, 2008

Nifft said:
No sections. If he can't possess the whole house, he can't possess the house.

Yup.

ECS has rules for trying to carry a possessed object into a MCvE, I'd use those.

moritheil · Apr 4, 2008

Ok, I have an update from our player:

The entry under the 5th level ability for FoP reads Possess Noncontinuous Object (Su): At 5th level a fiend of possession can use it possess object ability to take control of an "object" more loosely defined, a pool of water, a cloud of dust, a section of wall or floor. At this level a fiend of possession can also possess (and animate) colossal objects.

moritheil · Apr 5, 2008

So, would you rule that MCvE has any effect on this?

Nifft · Apr 5, 2008

moritheil said:
Ok, I have an update from our player:

I'd rule that, as soon as a "section of wall or floor" were possessed by this ability, it becomes a contiguous, separate, animated object of a particular size. In other words, he busts up out of the wall or floor, which is now missing a chunk.

You may want to rule that a wall made of bricks or larger stones can't be busted up like this, because he'd have to possess just a single brick or stone. This fits the "worked stone" restrictions on stone shape and the like. You may also want to rule that the usual teleport blockers (gorgon's blood mortar or whatever) also block possession, due to their extrusion into the astral / ethereal / whatever.

It's then no stronger than time hop or stone shape.

Cheers, -- N

moritheil · Apr 6, 2008

Nifft said:
I'd rule that, as soon as a "section of wall or floor" were possessed by this ability, it becomes a contiguous, separate, animated object of a particular size. In other words, he busts up out of the wall or floor, which is now missing a chunk.

You may want to rule that a wall made of bricks or larger stones can't be busted up like this, because he'd have to possess just a single brick or stone. This fits the "worked stone" restrictions on stone shape and the like. You may also want to rule that the usual teleport blockers (gorgon's blood mortar or whatever) also block possession, due to their extrusion into the astral / ethereal / whatever.

It's then no stronger than time hop or stone shape.

Cheers, -- N

Thank you, that's actually very helpful.

In this particular scenario, the stone is unworked, but I wonder if it would be fair to render his possessed section unresponsive as soon as he steps into the MCvE area. That is, he possesses the stone, it gets up with a mighty roar, lumbers towards his target - and then does nothing. He will have to dispel the MCvE before being able to possess something in the area.

Is this interpretation supported by RAW? I know that the FoP blurs the line between "possession" and "animate object."

(I have a dispel magic tied to Hallow as well, but the FoP version of animate object is (Su) . . . )

Possession & MCvE - How would you rule? (My players stay out)

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Oh this is where the title goes?

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