Another crack at a martial controller: The Swashbuckler

Hi!

A week or so ago I posted a thread suggesting that barbarians would make good strikers, or maybe even controllers. The response was mixed, but i'm still interested in the idea, and still concerned that the different roles (such as defender) might end up giving rise to classes which are too uniform with one another. To put it another way, I don't want all the defenders to be 'big guy with sword', or all the strikers to be 'fast accurate guy', or the other norms that already seem to be developing.

There's no reason for the concept of a given class to lean on the conventional wisdom as to what a particular role should look like, and in general roles are a great opportunity to create some interesting and non-archetypal character options. I know people have also been talking about classes with hybrid roles, but i'm don't think a character has to be for isntance, a hybrid striker, just because they're moving around a lot.


So anyway my new idea is that a Swashbuckler class would make a great martial controller.

Anybody who's ever seen a movie that is even slightly swashbuckley wil know that the heroes tend to fight a whole bunch of people at once, move around the battlefield in wierd ways, and cause outer unique effects like disarming and humiliating people. I don't think controllers have to operate at range, and I do think that the unique fighting style of such a character would be perfectly suited to the kind of crowd control powers that are right at home in the controller role.

OTOH I can also see and argument for them being defenders, since they tend to keep a lot of their enemies busy. But realyl swashbucklers don't strike me as doing that much damage to their enemies, which seems the norm for defenders and particularly strikers.

Either way, a swashbuckler could have abilities such as:

*Dance of Blades: Make an attack against each adjacent foe and then slide any foe you hit one square.

*The Cruelest Cut: Make an attack with CHA as a bonus and hold a foe in place, or apply another status effect with a will save to end it.

*Steel Tango: On a successful hit, Mark one enemy adjacent to you who attacked you last turn, swop places with them as a minor action or as part of a standard action, lose the mark if you are not in adjacent squares.

*My hero: Swop places with an ally within 2 squares when an enemy has made an attack against you, but before it is resolved. Your ally is then attacked in your place and will probably want to have a chat about teamwork after the battle.

*Pardon Me: Move through the enemies as if they were allies for one round, gain CHA as a bonus to AC until the end of the encounter.


Any thoughts?

I like it. Cases could be made for the Swash being either Defender, Controller, or Striker. I'd have to disagree with Swashbucklers not doing much damage: I see them as doing a ton of damage, just not often. Mainly they take their time and drop foes one by one with precise strikes. The powers/abilities that you listed aren't ludicrous, and would be fun in combat.

I'm of the opinion you could do a Swashbuckler with a rogue, though. Some would point out that sneak attack != swashbuckling, which is partially true...but in all fairness, to get the true feel of a Swashbuckler, he/she would have to be a party of one and continually fighting lower-level foes.

Another thing your post (and others before) shows is just how easy it is to come up with new things for 4th Ed. Once we have the core books, we have a baseline of what level those powers should be made available, and can take it from there!

happyelf said:

OTOH I can also see and argument for them being defenders, since they tend to keep a lot of their enemies busy. But realyl swashbucklers don't strike me as doing that much damage to their enemies, which seems the norm for defenders and particularly strikers.

Either way, a swashbuckler could have abilities such as:

*Dance of Blades: Make an attack against each adjacent foe and then slide any foe you hit one square.

*The Cruelest Cut: Make an attack with CHA as a bonus and hold a foe in place, or apply another status effect with a will save to end it.

*Steel Tango: On a successful hit, Mark one enemy adjacent to you who attacked you last turn, swop places with them as a minor action or as part of a standard action, lose the mark if you are not in adjacent squares.

*My hero: Swop places with an ally within 2 squares when an enemy has made an attack against you, but before it is resolved. Your ally is then attacked in your place and will probably want to have a chat about teamwork after the battle.

*Pardon Me: Move through the enemies as if they were allies for one round, gain CHA as a bonus to AC until the end of the encounter.


Any thoughts?

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Remember, all class have a tiny dash of another's role. Warlocks are strikers with a little controlling.
Wizards are controllers that can do a little striking.

So rogue are a striker with a little dash of defending. Just add those as additional rogue talents they can choose and boom bada bing: you have your swashbucklers.
Just have to find the right balanced level for each power.
I find My Hero and Pardon me weird, but the rest seem good.

Rogues are capable warriors now. After all light blades = what all swashbucklers used.

I see a swashbuckler as a defender. Like you said they tie up a lot of people and rather than making one powerful swing they make 3 weak ones, or one very precise one...

On the other hand, I see them as a striker. In that case I would like the ranger two-weapon fighter build to encompass the swashbuckler. Movement is their key, and that seems very appropriate for a swashbuckler. Probably the best way to make a swashbuckler out of the gate would be to do a multi-classed ranger w/fighter.

The best martial controller concept imho is the grenadier/trap/alchemist/engineer guy. Uses his gadgets to control the battlefield. This is a class that I would be very excited to see. A swashbuckler, meh, whatever, we already have a rogue, a ranger and a fighter, and a swashbuckler would be more of the same just portioned out in different ways. The martial controller I proposed, would be different and would absolutely have their own niche, not stepping on any others toes (except the wizard ).

Please put fan-created threads in the new forum. I'll slide this over!

My inclination is to say that a martial controller is going to look less like a fighter and more like a cross between a warlord and a archer-ranger. Imagine a "Strategist" character who fight with a bow from the backline (with "Magic Missile" effectiveness, not Ranger effectiveness). The character's abilities include some crippling / pinning shots, as well a few AoE trick shots with special ammo.

Other abilities would include a mixture of warlord-like group manuevers that change the battlefield by making groups of people better defenders as well as strategems that require preparing the battlefield or planning actions ahead of time. Alternatively, this character could be a minion-based controller like a Beast Master class that depends on minions (e.g. WoW pets or Necromancer from Diablo II).

This class looks like it would be a lot of fun to play...add a cutlass, a musket, and an eyepatch, and you have my favorite fighter/rogue stereotype! (Peg-leg and tricorne hat optional.)

KidSnide said:

My inclination is to say that a martial controller is going to look less like a fighter and more like a cross between a warlord and a archer-ranger. Imagine a "Strategist" character who fight with a bow from the backline (with "Magic Missile" effectiveness, not Ranger effectiveness). The character's abilities include some crippling / pinning shots, as well a few AoE trick shots with special ammo.

Other abilities would include a mixture of warlord-like group manuevers that change the battlefield by making groups of people better defenders as well as strategems that require preparing the battlefield or planning actions ahead of time. Alternatively, this character could be a minion-based controller like a Beast Master class that depends on minions (e.g. WoW pets or Necromancer from Diablo II).

Click to expand...

This makes me wonder if this is the reason why Warlords are Strength / Melee focused even though their flavor is oriented toward strategy... they'd be too much like controllers with a splash of leader if they were at range. Perhaps they are holding back on what would be a "ranged Warlord" to make a class that would serve to be their first Martial Controller?