D&D 4E My 4e changes so far

Ok, here are my 4e changes, houserules, and additions so far. They include everything from a revised Half-elf and Int Bonuses to skills and languages to the return of such favorite 3.x features as a Wizard's familiar, a Paladin's Mount, a Ranger's Wild Empathy, a Warlock's Eldritch Essences, and Weapon Finesse. There are a dozen new feats in all, plus tougher Minions, rebalanced powers, worthwhile multiclassing, a revised version of Stalker0's Skill Challenges, and more!

I hope you will look it over and give me your feedback! Thanks, and enjoy!

No comments yet? Well, here's a question for you... should the Int bonus be limited to mental skills, or should physical skills be eligible too?

On the one hand, it makes more sense to limit it to mental skills (How would Int help an Endurance check?).

On the other hand, that allows mental skills to have a higher maximum bonus than physical skills, which I don't like, and under the 3.x system, bonus skill points from Int could be put toward any skills.

While I originally leaned toward the former, I'm now leaning toward the latter... what do you think?


Also, if you have any questions about why I made some of the changes I did, feel free to ask! In general, some were for reasons of balance, some to re-introduce favorite bits of 3.x.

Edit: Here's the updated version with Int able to affect any skills, and clarification on Rain of Blades.

a) Intelligence bonus for skills
Seems good and not to unbalancing. What happens on levelup / stat changes, or is this rule only in effect during character generation?

b) Elves and Half-Elves
I don't see the need for changes. But the Half-Elf looks interesting.

c) Class changes
Cleric - Huge buff to this ability and takes a lot of consideration away. I would rather change the modifier to something like +Wis or +Cha, whatever is higher and keep the 1 roll restriction.

Ranger - Good

Warlock - Don't see the need for change here, but looks fine.

Wizard - Invulnerable, portable and always availiable magic implement as a free class choice? Who in their right mindset would take any other implement mastery in that case? Make it require a feat tree to upgrade at least.

...

Woah, have to go to work.

TimeOut said:

a) Intelligence bonus for skills
Seems good and not to unbalancing. What happens on levelup / stat changes, or is this rule only in effect during character generation?

b) Elves and Half-Elves
I don't see the need for changes. But the Half-Elf looks interesting.

c) Class changes
Cleric - Huge buff to this ability and takes a lot of consideration away. I would rather change the modifier to something like +Wis or +Cha, whatever is higher and keep the 1 roll restriction.

Ranger - Good

Warlock - Don't see the need for change here, but looks fine.

Wizard - Invulnerable, portable and always availiable magic implement as a free class choice? Who in their right mindset would take any other implement mastery in that case? Make it require a feat tree to upgrade at least.

...

Woah, have to go to work.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the replies!

a) If your Int bonus increases permanently, you may choose 1 additional skill or language. Temporary increases do not provide any bonus.

b) Half elves are widely considered to be underpowered (and I agree), and I HATE the bonus to ally's skills within a zone. They make no sense, they impinge on that character's niche, and people will forget to add a +1 bonus from another character, who may or may not be within 5 or 10 squares from your character. The Ref bonus makes much more sense, IMO.

c) Cleric - Remember that Divine Fortune is a Personal prayer, it only affects the cleric, not the whole party. So a +1 bonus to attack rolls or saving throws, only for the Cleric, until the end of next round (2 attacks/powers or 2 rounds of saving throws) is not that extraordinary a power IMO. Other races get constant (or very common) bonuses to attacks, such as the Ranger, Fighter, and Rogue. A +4 Wis to a single attack would actually be a bigger bonus than +1 to 2 attacks.

Wizard - I considered giving the familiar HPs of his own (probably only a few points), or just have him use the Wizard's HP, but that creates problems with area attacks either killing him automatically, or hitting the Wizard twice (once when it hits the wizard himself, and again when it hits the familiar who is linked to the Wizard). Since Disarm and Sundering are no longer allowed, though, a Wizard's other Implements are effectively immune to attacks as well (except from Disintegrate), thus the Familiar should be no different. Any attack or effect that could destroy or remove a wand, staff, or orb, I'd rule would also work against a familiar. But in general, most attacks will target the Wizard himself, not his Implements, whether it's a wand or a ferret.

As for it gaining magical adjustments for free, it only gains them at the level at which a Wizard could build his own Implement. Most Wizards would already have a magical Implement before this time however, since you find magic items 1 to 5 levels higher than your own level, not your level or lower. So while a 1st level Wizard might well find (or buy) a +1 Wand or Staff, a wizard with a familiar will have to wait until 3rd level to get his +1 bonus. Yes, he'll get it free, and the Familiar need only be within 10 squares, not in his hands, but he's going to get that bonus about 2-3 levels later than another Wizard. (Though, there's nothing preventing a Wizard from using an Implement he doesn't have Mastery in... it just means that he can only use that special bonus when using the proper Implement. So a Wizard with Familiar Implement Mastery could use a Staff +1 that he finds, but he wouldn't get any additional AC bonus or staff Mastery ability)

Also, a Wizard can only use 1 Implement for any 1 particular spell. A +1 Familiar and a +1 Staff only lets him use a single +1, not combine them for +2.

So the real benefit of having a Familiar is what ability the Implement Mastery gives you. Instead of an attack bonus like the wand, or extending the duration of sustainable effects like an orb, it lets the Wizard cast the spell through the familiar, as if he were in some other square within 10 squares, after the familiar has moved there, once per day. This works well for a Burst or Blast effect that he doesn't want to roast his buddies with, but also doesn't want to run around their protective wall to get close to the enemy to cast it. It's a unique bonus, very useful for a Wizard, that also meshes well with familiar rules of old, so I think it's well balanced, in all.

Ok... At work now, so I can comment further on your ideas.

I agree that the skill-aura powers are kinda stupid. I just don't like your choice of boosting personal defenses instead. Perhaps change them into another, more useful aura or give them an encounter / daily power.

c) Cleric - Remember that Divine Fortune is a Personal prayer, it only affects the cleric, not the whole party. So a +1 bonus to attack rolls or saving throws, only for the Cleric, until the end of next round (2 attacks/powers or 2 rounds of saving throws) is not that extraordinary a power IMO. Other races get constant (or very common) bonuses to attacks, such as the Ranger, Fighter, and Rogue. A +4 Wis to a single attack would actually be a bigger bonus than +1 to 2 attacks.

Click to expand...

I agree. +4 would be too much. Perhaps remove the personal restriction and make it Close burst 20 - Target: You or an ally in the burst. That would play a little more on the leader role. Your prayer infuses you or your companion with divine guidance.

Wizard
Implements can be stolen or lost, but I agree this has no combat rules relevance. Are familiars always there or more like "now here - now gone"?

But since the casting effect of the familiar can only be used once per encounter, it looks balanced.

Spell book: First part is basically fluff (I assume that the rules state that you can't memorize spells without a spellbook, can't check at work).

Retraining and changing spells at level up: I think that they should use the same rules. So when you can swap a power at level up, you swap only one.

Power changes
Cleric - No idea, no PHB at work.
Fighter - I thought the idea of the at-will was to trade +Dam for +toHit

Ranger
Careful Attack - Good
Twin Strike - Not necessary, either nerf TS or buff CA

Wizard - Looks good

Feats
Bolt - Nice!
Essence - Looks cool
Divinity - Also cool
Knife-Fighter - Useful, no prereqs?
LSA - No more TPK through fireball. Cool feat, but maybe Paragon tier?
Roll with the Blow: This should be formatted as an encounter power.
Tap the Power: Don't know how useful that is.
Two-Handed Swing: No idea if this is balanced or not.
Warlock Implements: Really nice!
Weapon Finesse: Hm, boost to OA. Rather small benefit in comparision to Knife-Fighter for instance.
Wild Empathy: Interesting feat, with more non-combat applications than combat applications. I like it.

Multiclassing
Ranger - Errata has already confirmed that

Advanced Training: You gain 3 feats for the price of one? That sounds really unbalanced. Ranger TWF bonus is better than all the other.

Rules
Self-Stabilizing: Sounds fair.
Minions: I don't like this, but this is a personal preference.
Quarterstaff: Seems fair if you like the style.

No comment on the skill challenge changes because I had no time to analyze the original system as much as I would like yet.

TimeOut said:

Ok... At work now, so I can comment further on your ideas.

I agree that the skill-aura powers are kinda stupid. I just don't like your choice of boosting personal defenses instead. Perhaps change them into another, more useful aura or give them an encounter / daily power.



I agree. +4 would be too much. Perhaps remove the personal restriction and make it Close burst 20 - Target: You or an ally in the burst. That would play a little more on the leader role. Your prayer infuses you or your companion with divine guidance.

Wizard
Implements can be stolen or lost, but I agree this has no combat rules relevance. Are familiars always there or more like "now here - now gone"?

But since the casting effect of the familiar can only be used once per encounter, it looks balanced.

Spell book: First part is basically fluff (I assume that the rules state that you can't memorize spells without a spellbook, can't check at work).

Retraining and changing spells at level up: I think that they should use the same rules. So when you can swap a power at level up, you swap only one.

Power changes
Cleric - No idea, no PHB at work.
Fighter - I thought the idea of the at-will was to trade +Dam for +toHit

Ranger
Careful Attack - Good
Twin Strike - Not necessary, either nerf TS or buff CA

Wizard - Looks good

Feats
Bolt - Nice!
Essence - Looks cool
Divinity - Also cool
Knife-Fighter - Useful, no prereqs?
LSA - No more TPK through fireball. Cool feat, but maybe Paragon tier?
Roll with the Blow: This should be formatted as an encounter power.
Tap the Power: Don't know how useful that is.
Two-Handed Swing: No idea if this is balanced or not.
Warlock Implements: Really nice!
Weapon Finesse: Hm, boost to OA. Rather small benefit in comparision to Knife-Fighter for instance.
Wild Empathy: Interesting feat, with more non-combat applications than combat applications. I like it.

Multiclassing
Ranger - Errata has already confirmed that

Advanced Training: You gain 3 feats for the price of one? That sounds really unbalanced. Ranger TWF bonus is better than all the other.

Rules
Self-Stabilizing: Sounds fair.
Minions: I don't like this, but this is a personal preference.
Quarterstaff: Seems fair if you like the style.

No comment on the skill challenge changes because I had no time to analyze the original system as much as I would like yet.

Click to expand...

You're right, some things, like the spellbook memorization and ranger Hunter's Quarry are clarifications and errata, not actual changes. (Spell Preparation is described under the Spellbook heading, but nowhere does it actually state that you MUST have your spellbook to change spells, or what effect there is of losing your spellbook.)

Careful Attack and Twin Strike - One was too weak, the other too strong. Someone did calculations, and found that if you were only changing Careful Attack, in order to make them balance you'd need to give it +4 to hit and double the stat bonus to damage! That's too much, and puts CA out of whack as well compared to other powers. I found that a +4 to hit for CA and a -2 each for TS keeps them fairly well balanced not just with each other, but the other 2 Ranger At Wills.

Weapon Finesse - This could be a fairly big boost if Dex is significantly higher than Str, especially at later levels for a character that keeps boosting their Dex. I wanted a way to keep Rogues and other knife fighters focused on Dex. They use Dex to throw their knives, so using it for melee basic attacks as well isn't too much of a stretch, I think.

Knife Fighter - I wanted to keep daggers balanced with short swords, and encourage Rogues to actually prefer the dagger, with enough feats. For a non-Rogue, a dagger is a completely inferior melee weapon to a short sword. (Same Prof bonus, 1d4 vs 1d6 damage). For a Rogue, they gain a +1 attack bonus with daggers, giving a choice of better damage or better attack bonus. However, especially when the damage die is multiplied several times over for higher level powers, the short sword again just flat out becomes the better choice. Now, for the cost of a feat, they can use a dagger and get the +1 attack bonus, and not have to sacrifice damage.

Note that this still isn't the unequivocally best melee option, since for the cost of 1 feat they could instead take Weapon Prof: Rapier and get +3 attack and d8 damage...

Multiclassing - Advanced Training - trading a feat + a power for another power that probably uses a different weapon/implement and quite possibly a stat that is not your best, and that may not fit your party role, is a fool's bargain. I think trading 1 power for another is at best an even trade, and possibly even a sacrifice. I had originally given multiclass characters the option to trade 1 power for another for free. But then I discovered that there are a lot of abilities these MC's lacked and that were necessary for Paragon Paths or powers, such as a Ranger's Weapon style or the Warlock's Curse. So I combined the 3 feats with a weakened versions of these abilities into 1 feat... I figure the weakened abilities are worth about 1/2 a feat, and the ability to swap the 3 powers the other 1/2 a feat.

Well, it's 3:30 AM here in California, so I'm heading to bed, I have work tomorrow. Thanks again for the feedback!

Ok, here's the latest version. We've received an official answer from WotC as to how spellbooks and trading old spells for higher level ones work, so I went with their ruling.

I also created a feat called Class Mastery that is pretty darn good, and is only available if you have not taken a multiclass feat, giving a good incentive to remain in a single class and take Skill Training instead of automatically choosing a multiclass feat.

I slightly buffed the Wand of Accuracy Wizard ability because Dex is not going to be very high for most Wizards.

I added a Racial Paragon feat that allows races with per encounter racial powers to use them a 2nd time by spending a healing surge.

Edit: Clarified language for Racial Paragon

It looks my idea of changing spells was wrong, nevermind. The official ruling makes sense from a rules perspective.

Class Mastery is really good, I like it.

How often can you activate the Racial Paragon feat? As long as you have surges remaining?

TimeOut said:

It looks my idea of changing spells was wrong, nevermind. The official ruling makes sense from a rules perspective.

Class Mastery is really good, I like it.

How often can you activate the Racial Paragon feat? As long as you have surges remaining?

Click to expand...

Nope, just 1 extra time per encounter.

"This feat allows you to use your racial encounter power a second time in an encounter by spending a healing surge."

Maybe I should clarify that though? Would this be better?:

"This feat allows you to use your racial encounter power one additional time in an encounter by spending a healing surge."

Perhaps: Once per encounter you may spend a healing surge, but regain no hit points. Instead you regain the use of one racial encounter power you have already used.